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 General Guide for Desert Strike 1338

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TohoBuWaha
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PostSubject: General Guide for Desert Strike 1338   Tue Jan 31, 2012 7:07 am

Hi everyone,

Ive played this map now a lot and still enjoy doing so. Unfortunately there's a lot of really bad players on this map and I hope some of them (of course also other ones^^) will read this and improve their strategies.

I'll first give some generals tipps and then write some comments about every faction and every unit. This means I wont say "go for unit x+unit y", but only show which units are good and which are not.

General

Income
On this map you have 2 options to increase your income: building refineries and controlling the middle. Most players concentrate on the first one, while the second one is far more important. A refinery increases your income by 10% and nullifies your income for some time.
Who those who are interested in more details:

1st gas +10%
2nd gas +15%
3rd gas +20%
4th gas +25%
5th gas +30%
By the way, I'd absolutely never get gas 4+5 as it takes so much time to get you the money back (you are 100/125 seconds without income just to increase it 5% AND after 20 minutes, when those slots are avaliable the game nomrally is about to end.

The middle gives all players of your team +15% income. With some refineries built that even increases a bit, foir example when having 2 refs it's +19%.
If you're playing 3v3 (which will nearly always be the case) you can see controlling the middle as a +45% income boost (3 players, each +15%). Therefore controlling the middle should always have a higher priority than getting the next refinery up.
What does that mean for you? If there's an equal fight for the middle or your team is slightly behind do not build a refinery and instead use all your money for more units. It wont hurt much, if you get your 10% boost 90 sec later, but controll the middle for at least 50% of the time, but it will hurt a lot, if you get the 10% boost, but your opponents controll the middle (getting +45%).
You should only build refineries if your team has a clear advantage (you controll the middle >75% of the time), or your team is completely behind and you wont get the middle back soon anyway (2nd case you also can in most cases write "gg" and leave the game^^).

Start of a game
Most players start with a refinery. If you're not on the 3rd spot this is definately a bad idea. Spend all your money on units and when your first wave has spawned you can get the first refinery. This way you will always control the middle if your opponent has built a refinery right at the start. Remember, he gets +10%, you get +45% for your team. Guess whats better!

A second thing. I often see players waiting 2-3 minutes and then going for t1-units. Absolutely never do that!. If your plan is getting some t1-units (which I highly recommend), do that as soon as possible. You want to control the middle! By the way scouting is no reason for that. Only unit that really needs scouting, cause it might be kinda useless is the baneling and I do not recommand starting with banelings for the first spawn.

Other things
Dancing: The dance-command (write "/dance" (if your game is not english you need the word for dancing in your language) while units are selected) is a very usefull thing at this map. It will let zerglings, marines and zealots stop right where they are. They wont fight anymore. In order to control the middle you need at least one unit on the other teams side. Early game the units will jsut run into the canon after winning the fight, to avoid that you can let your units dance and not only have a meatshield agaisnt following waves (thats less important), but also gain control of the middle for a longer time than it would be normally (+45% for your team, remember?)

Scanning: Honestly I dont like that feature. 25 minerals sounds not that much, but still its often wasted minerals. If your opponent builds stealth units just get a detector (observer, overseer, raven) as soon as possible. If there's 1-2 dt's just let them kill some units for the first wave. Next you'll have a detector and stealth units are very bad for their price ones they are detected. Only situation where you should scan is if you really need to kill the stealth unit in order to hold the middle.

Upgrades: Upgrades are a very important aspect of this map. Some people get them too late but some people also get them too early. When getting an upgrade always ask yourself, if the upgrade is worth more than the unit(s) you could get for this money. (and ofc only get it if your answer was "yes"). Also remeber that the effect of upgrades increases a lot if youve got a lot of units. Foe example a 3-3 battlecruiser is a very strong unit, nontheless you should get those upgrades after youve built at least 4-5 of them. 3 0-0 bcs are definately worth more than 1 3-3 bc, while 6 3-3 bcs are probably worth more than 8 0-0 bcs.--->Get your upgrades somewhere at 4-6 bcs!
By the way protoss infantry upgrades are very expensive, thus i'd recommend getting them much later than the other factions. That means you first upgrade should be not earlier than 10-12 untis out on your side. You can even wait longer.

Unit control panel: At the upper left corner there is a little box, most of you (me included^^) probably didnt even notice it. Once you click on it, you get to a panel where you can control all your units abilitites and can enable/disable them. This can be very usefull, if you want your units to stop using some abilitites. For example you can disable stim pack, if you want your infantry to be a meatshield indstead of dealing more damage. Or you can disable infested terran for infestors in order to make them using all their energy for the "better spells". Unfortunately it doesn't work for the pheonix's graviton beam (bugged).
Anyway you should use it! ;D




Terran units

Marine
Those are the standart infantry unit of the terran. They have a pretty high dps, can attack air and there spawn 2 units each round per building. Marines hould be the starting unit in every game for you, since they do well agaisnt nearly everything. It depends on your strategy if you want to get a lot of them or just 10-20, anyway they should be included in every terran army.
Also the upgrade "Shield" and "Stimpack" are totally worth their cost. (If you want to use your bioforce as meatshiled lategame you can play without stimpack, its possible, but not usual)

Marauder
Marauders are the armored part of the terran infantry and do well against other armored units. Compared to marines they have less damage for their cost and cant shoot air targets which makes them less valuable than marines. If your opponent goes heavily for roaches or stalkers you can get some marauders, if not there are better units the spend your money on.

Reaper
Reapers are another possible starting option. They are insane against light units and dont cost much more than marines. anyway they cant shoot at air units and cant use stim, what makes them weaker than marines lategame. Nonetheless their damage against buildings is great, making them a good option for killing the enemies canon early and they also win agaisnt a marine army for the same price. Reapers are pretty good to start with, but the become weaker th elonger the game goes. I personally like throwing some reapers in my marine army and increase the amount of reaper if I see the possibility of killing the canon early.

Ghost
Ghosts are a support unit and because of emp especially nice to have vs protoss (but also useable against other energy dependend units). Anyway they are not that strong for their high price, this u should never get more than 5-6 of them.

Hellion
The problem with hellions is that they start shooting once the enemy is in reach, which often results in not using their splash damage. Still they are very usefull against a biiger amount of zerglings or zealots and with blueflame-upgrade they can even be a decent counter against marines.

Medivac
Some people will disagree, but my opinion about medivacs on this map is not to get them at all. They can only heal 1 unit at a time (which will be a marine in most cases), it cannot do any damage and you get 2 marines for less money than a medivac. They are of course usefull, if you can retreat and heal up your army, like in normal games, but on this map that wont happen. They may help your army to survive a bit longer, but if you just got some more units youll also survive longer...(and do more damage)

Viking
Due to long range this unit would be great against air units and the collossus of protoss. Unfortunately they are too expensive and sometimes even go into ground mode when you definately dont want them to do so. My opinion is: never get them!

Banshee
That's the early game possibility of terrans to get an air unit able to attack ground units. Anyway its kinda expensive and often cant deal enough damage, even if your opponent doesnt have anti air yet. If the whole enemy time doesnt have anti air it might be a good move to add some banshees, overall I'd also say here: do not get them at all.

Raven
Ravens are expensive and they are the only protector terrans have. Thats a bad combination. Nontheless they are totally worth their cost, if you buy them some upgrades. Point defense drone is great against the right units (for example stalkers) and hearseeker missile is just extremely strong due to its large splash attack. Turrets are also not bad, but shouldnt be the reason for getting ravens. Anyway, if you go for raven there's only 2 options:
1. Get 1 raven for detection and no upgrades at. This will give you detection and some turrets, but isnt great at all.
2. Get all upgrades (sometimes you can play without point defense drone) and 6+ ravens. This will give you a very strong air force, dealing a lot of splash damage and also throwing a lot of turrets onto the battlefield. Never get upgrade for only 1-2 ravens, thats just too much money used for a low amount of units.

Tank
Tanks can be built t2, anyway I see them more as a t3 unit, as the siege mode upgrade becomes avaliable then. They are really strong if your opponent has a lot of ground units and you have enough of a meatshield (mass infantry or in some situations even hellions). Do not go for tanks only, since they need something in front of them for their siege mode. Also dont get them if your opponent is using air units for his lategame.
another nice aspect is that they often survive and then help your following ally.
If your only mech units are tanks I recommand only getting the mech, attack upgrade, but not the armor upgrade, as the battle is over nayway once the opponent has reached your tanks.

Battlecruiser
This is the best unit for terran's lategame. They have high dps, great armor, lots of hitpoints and a very strong ability (get yamato canon before getting other air upgrades). If the game goes into lategame battlecruisers are just always a good idea. Anyway do not rush for them, like many players do. You want to control the middle and before you get 10+ bcs they need some ground support agaisnt units like marines, hydras or stalkers.

Thor
Another very strong unit. Unlike the battlecruiser thors are not good in every situation, but if your opponent has clumping air units like vikings or ravens their splash air attac is really strong. They are also a good additional meatshield if you've got some tanks.

Vulture
I didnt test that unit much yet, but I'm pretty sure its far to exenspive for its cost. Its not that strong against anything, mines are not great at all and its expensive-->dont get eagles!



Next 2 factions will follow soon.


Last edited by TohoBuWaha on Tue Jan 31, 2012 8:47 pm; edited 9 times in total
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PostSubject: Re: General Guide for Desert Strike 1338   Tue Jan 31, 2012 7:07 am

*save spot*

Zerg units

Zergling
You might think that's the basic zerg unit. Well, in my opinion it's not. You can build zerglings on not yet taken geysir, which you should always do imo. Anyway in most cases I wouldnt get more than those 3 zerglings. You get 4 units per units and they are very strong at the start of a game. Anyway lategame melee units become more and more useless. Against terran a zergling/baneling combo with speed is not that bad, but also becomes weaker once he get's ravens with heart seeker missiles are just switches to air units.

Banelingg
As written above Zergling/Baneling is a combination, which is very strong against terran early game (and also against mass zealots), but it loses its effect the longer the game goes, thus I dont like using them. Against Terran its still okay, since you absolutely dominate his infantry units.

Roach
Roaches are in my opinion the standart zerg unit. They are pretty cheap, have a lot of hp and deal good damage. If they were able to attack air they'd be absolutely overpowered. early game they are just doing well against everything and often even can crush the canon if you dont go t2 too early and lategame they still do good damage against ground and tank a lot of damage. aynway it would get on of the 2 roach upgrades, since burrow is kinda useless once the fight has started and speed as stupid, as you do not want to split your army, but in most cases want to add hydras.

Queen
Queens are the most expensive t1-unit, but are great for taking early game, especially if you have some roaches for a higher dps. They are an option - especially early game - but they are not needed. I prefer Roaches only, since they deal more damage and also tank kinda good (remember you get 2 roaches for 1 queen). Still you can use them, if you like them. (And maybe want to tank until your following ally arrives)

Hydralisk
Hydralisks are the other part of basic zerg ground units. They are a great addition to roaches. They use the same upgrades and upgraded (you should always get the range upgrade!) they have enough range to stand behind your line of roaches. They can attack air and its just a great combination, since the tanks (roaches) are in front and the dps-dealer is behind the tank. Just perfect. They are also decent if they're on their own. Anyway I dont see a reason not to get roaches, when getting hydras.

Overlord
This is just the worst unit in the game. They not only do not make up for their price, but even put you at a disadvantage once youve built them. The creeps doesnt effect every unit in the same way and this will result in your army being split up and your opponents will have an easy time defeating you. If your only ground units are zerglings and banelings you can build overlords, but even then I think the upgraded speed of those units is already enough. -->Do never build overlords, its even better not to build anything, than building an overlord.

Overseer
Your only unit for detection, thus if your opponent has stealth, get an overseer, if not, do not get an overseer. If your army only has standart speed you do not need the speed upgrade.

Mutalisk
A very cheap air unit, still its kinda bad for its cost. They just dont counter anything at all. Air vs ground broodlords are better and air vs air corruptors are better. Do not get them. Just like Banshees if all opponents dont have anti air it might be nice to have some mutas flying around.
Another downside of this unit is their huge clumping, giving your opponent an easy way to counter them with splash attacks like fungal growth and psy storm.

Corruptor
Corruptors are a good anti air unit, but their range is not that good. They are a good choice vs protoss air and collosus, also good against broodlords, but only good agaisnt battlecruiser if there's only a few bcs. The problem is that yamato owns a corruptor, thus I rather get the cheaper hydra and some infestors.

Infestor
Ladies and gentlemen, that's the best unit zerg has and in my opinion also the best unit in the game. There is absolutely no situation where infestors are not usefull. Anyway you need some upgrades (always energy + fungal and/or neural parasite) to make them that strong. Infested terrans are not the reason to get them, but fungal just owns nearly every non t3-unit and neural parasite is for those t3 units^^. Most people only get 3-4 infestors, in my opinion you can easily get 10, or even 15-20 of them.
Remeber that you can manually use fungal and neural parasite AND, which is more important, you can click on infestors and disallow those spells (right mouse click on the icon). For example if you infestors are fully upgraded and you fight a terran, but all yoir infestors mind control something, but noone uses fungal on the marines, just click on a few infestors before the fight and disallow mind control for them.

Broodlord
Just the best air vs ground unit in this game, since it not only deals damage, but also spawns some weak melee units. Anyway broodlords are for altegame and lategame often means a lot of air units, thus broddlords are not always a good idea to get. always build them, if your opponent has a big ground force, but do not get them, if he doesnt spend moeny on ground anymore. (the already existing ground force can be handled by other units like hydras and infestors, which can also attack air)

Ultralisk
They are very strong, but its lategame when you get them and lategame you want air units and/or you want ranged units. A big melee unit, which often even doesnt find a path to the enemy is just not that usefull. You may get them if you started zergling/baneling and your opponent still builds ground units. anyway I suggest not to build this unit.

Lurker
Lurkers are very expensive and cannot move underground. In addition to that their damage is not that great. Stealth while burrowed doesnt make up for that and also their ai isnt the best. Do not get them!



Protoss units

Zealot
Very good unit for the start of a game and even lategame a good meatshield. With charge-upgrade the zealot has the same speed as a stalker, making them a very good combination. I wouldnt get many against zerg, as they become pretty weak once infestors with fungal growth enter the battlefield.

Stalker
A very strong basic unit. Can shoot at air targets and does well agaisnt nearly everything. Blink is a very important upgrade, as the ai uses it very good, what finally makes your stalkers stay alive a bit longer and deal more damage. Stalkers should be in every protoss army.

Sentry
Guardian Shield is very strong agaisnt marines and sometimes halluzinations can be a good meatshield. Still I dont like getting sentries, because they are not as fast as charge-zealots and stalkers. Even though they are not a bad idea, especially against terra. Anyway dont get too many of them, since they're only supporters and not great at fighting.

Observer
If you need detection, get them...

Immortal
Immortals are very strong against armored ground units, so if your opponent has a lot of them, dont hesitate to get them. They also do well against the canon and the planetary fortress. Anyway do never get them, if there are a lot of marines/zerglings/zealots on the battlefield. Immortals need enemies dealing >>10 damage, since they always receive a maximum of 10 damage per hit. Also their damage against light is by far not as good as against armored (20 vs light and 50 vs armored i think). Remeber that they cant attack air.

Dark Templar
They have the same speed like charge-zealots. If you have some zealots you should always build 1 dt, forcing your opponent to spend some money on a detecotr. If he doesnt do so you can also consider building a second one. Anyway you should never build more than 1-2, cause once the opponent has a detector, the only thing you've got is a stronger zealot, who's too expensive.

High Templar
In my opoinion Feedback is no reason for getting them, cause they're often too slow (if your army is zealot/stalker they will arrive 3-4 secs later anyway). Psystorm is a nice option to deal some splash damage, so if you're facing a huge bioforce getting 3-5 temps with storm is for sure a good idea.

Archon
They are a good tank and deal some splash damage. Still their range is kinda poor and they're very expensive. To me they are not more than a melee unit, which is able to attack air units. they're also a bit too slow for the standart stalker/zealot-combination which will result in them behing behind your army without enough range to join the battle. If you dont have stalkers and need a good tank, you can surely get them. They do extra damage against bio, so they do well against zealots, zerg and terran bio armies. Still there's the problem with them being not always able to join the fight right away, so if you like them, you can get them, but they're definetely no "must-have".


Phoenix
Short range, not a good ai for the special ability and high cost, I wouldnt get them.

Void Ray
Best T2-air unit. They do well against nearly everything and if you dont need a colossus they allow you to stay t2 for a very long time. A very good lategame unit and also very good julst to throw some air units onto the battlefield. Only downside is their clumping, which can really hurt against units like thors.

Colossus
The best ground vs ground unit in the game. If you're fighting against ground and need some splash damage, just get 4-5 of them. That should win enarly every ground battle.

Carrier
The second option for your lategame airforce. Void Ray and Carrier can be mixed or you decide to choose one of them, it doenst matter, its strong. Mass Carriers are nearly as good as mass battlecruisers.

Scout
At the moment this unit is a bit bugged and will rather attack ground units, than air units. It's very strong for it's cost, especially against armored air units, where it deal the same damage like charged void rays for 50% less money. Another thing i like is that it has nearly the same speed as zealots/stalkers, allowing them to enter the battle right when it starts, while other air units like void rays need 3-4 more seconds.
If your opponent heavily u0ses armored air units the scout is a very good (proabyl even too strong) counter. If he has a lot of ground units the scout is weakened by a lot, since he will attack them first, but still a moderate choice.



Thanks to zuPloed for writing a lot of suggestions, most of them are mentioned in that guide Wink


That's all ;D

If you want to add something or do not agree with some points just write your comment down here. I'll add/change those things if I agree.


Last edited by TohoBuWaha on Tue Jan 31, 2012 10:09 am; edited 3 times in total
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PostSubject: Re: General Guide for Desert Strike 1338   Tue Jan 31, 2012 9:39 am

First of all,
nice!
i thought about writing a guide here for some time too.

now lets dismantle it :>
(as many people just read the guide and not thee comments,
pls update these points if u agree with me)

Quote :
A refinery increases your income by 10% and nullifies your income for some time.
u may use this table (thats less confusing):
1st gas +10%
2nd gas +15%
3rd gas +20%
4th gas +25%
5th gas +30%

Quote :
Remember, he gets +10%, you get +45% for your team. Guess whats better!
Thats not quite correct, the math with 3 players is not that easy:
example- 1 on 3: soloplayer has 1 income to buy units but spawns 3 times as much as 3 players with 3 times his income
accuratly: the middle gives 15% to evryone without cost
also worth mentioning:
the middle income is a mulitplier
2 gas + middle=
basic income * gas bonus * middle bonus
(5 per second) *(1+0.1+0.15)*1.15
so if u allready have 2 gasses mid is wort about 19%

all those accurate values are also in the ingame help.

Quote :
(2nd case you also can write "gg" and leave the game^^)
thats quite a special case now, but:
there are viable (still tricky) ways to get back middle control with unitcompositions,
that need a critical mass (easiest example carriers)
but in general what u said is right

Quote :
Most players start with a refinery. If you're not on the 3rd spot this is definately a bad idea.
I actually quite often dont take refineries until 5 minutes in gametime (or even later sometimes),
at this point either their cannon is doomed, or i have an secured middle and dont do myself some harm getting 1 or 2 raffineries,
people should get clear about smth: 2-3 roaches or 4 marines is a huge difference in mid-control for the first 3-4 minutes
(thats what only the first raffinerie is worth)
just 1 aspect, which is way more difficult at even skilllevels, but as u wrote this guide for nebies, it has its place here.

Quote :
(write "/dance" while units are selected)
in diffrent localications it might be the word of ur language for dance
for example in the german version the only working command is "/tanzen"

Quote :
By the way protoss infantry upgrades are very expensive, thus i'd recommend getting them much later than the other factions. That means you first upgrade should be not earlier than 10-12 untis out on your side. You can even wait longer.
1 exeption here:
first weapon upgrades against zerglings (0weapon-roach/zlot kills a zergling in 3 hits,
1weapon roach/kills a zergling in 2 hits! , therefor they force the zerg to get the armorupgrade)
as many players dont look for the upgrades this is a trick worth mentioning for newbies Smile


u should definetly also mention the skill control panel on the left side!

Quote :
and with blueflame-upgrade they can even be a decent counter against marines.
i'm rly split about this one, u can roast marines quite good,
but only if other units take the dmg for the hellions, and terran has no units,
to force this focus.

Quote :
Eagle
not sure about this but in normal sc1 the accurate english name is "Vulture"
despite the german version names them "adler" (=eagle in english)

Quote :
Zerg units
i totally share ur playstyle of zerg, though ur guide is written like theres only that way,
there is a set of options for advanced players, to use speed-advantages
(for example if the player who spawns beforehand has lasting units like blinkstalkers
and u thereby creat an rly early doublewave)

Quote :
Mutalisk
u might want to add that their mainweakness is sticking all in 1 spot,
and therby they are pretty weak lategame (fungal, storm, seakermissile, thor, archon...)

Quote :
(always energy + fungal and/or neural parasite)
turn of the infested marine ability and u can save urself the 100 for energy
i do this 90% of the cases

Quote :
Immortal
they are brutal at dealing with cannons and the pf,
few of them never hurt imho

Quote :
Archon
they deal bonusdamage aginst bio-units
->good against zlots

Quote :
Scout
cant stress it enough 200 way is way to cheap for an air unit,
which deals as much dmg to armored as a charged voidray at the same hp and range!
still theyre bugged right now, so u should only consider them,
if theres NO ground unit in range when they fight
(as theyre now they tend do attack ground units first)
still theyre ridiculously cost eefficient against mainly air composed forces!


--- long post Oo ---
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PostSubject: Re: General Guide for Desert Strike 1338   Tue Jan 31, 2012 10:26 am

zuPloed wrote:
u may use this table (thats less confusing):
1st gas +10%
2nd gas +15%
3rd gas +20%
4th gas +25%
5th gas +30%
Thanks, added.

zuPloed wrote:
Thats not quite correct, the math with 3 players is not that easy:
example- 1 on 3: soloplayer has 1 income to buy units but spawns 3 times as much as 3 players with 3 times his income
I wrote "in 3v3" and there I'm right Razz
>90% of the games will be 3v3 anyway.

zuPloed wrote:
also worth mentioning:
the middle income is a mulitplier
2 gas + middle=
basic income * gas bonus * middle bonus
(5 per second) *(1+0.1+0.15)*1.15
so if u allready have 2 gasses mid is wort about 19%
Added, but not in detail

zuPloed wrote:
there are viable (still tricky) ways to get back middle control with unitcompositions,
that need a critical mass (easiest example carriers)
but in general what u said is right
Added "in most cases" or something like that^^

zuPloed wrote:
I actually quite often dont take refineries until 5 minutes in gametime (or even later sometimes),
at this point either their cannon is doomed, or i have an secured middle and dont do myself some harm getting 1 or 2 raffineries,
people should get clear about smth: 2-3 roaches or 4 marines is a huge difference in mid-control for the first 3-4 minutes
(thats what only the first raffinerie is worth)
just 1 aspect, which is way more difficult at even skilllevels, but as u wrote this guide for nebies, it has its place here.
True, but I think that's more for experienced players. Most go for ref first anyway and then the "readers" will be on advantage.

zuPloed wrote:
in diffrent localications it might be the word of ur language for dance
for example in the german version the only working command is "/tanzen"
Thanks, added...I also thought about it but somehow forgot it^^

zuPloed wrote:

1 exeption here:
first weapon upgrades against zerglings (0weapon-roach/zlot kills a zergling in 3 hits,
1weapon roach/kills a zergling in 2 hits! , therefor they force the zerg to get the armorupgrade)
as many players dont look for the upgrades this is a trick worth mentioning for newbies Smile
Hmm, don't think that's necessary, those are special cases and thus more than just guidelines.


zuPloed wrote:
u should definetly also mention the skill control panel on the left side!
Uhm, w00t? Embarassed

zuPloed wrote:
Quote :
and with blueflame-upgrade they can even be a decent counter against marines.
i'm rly split about this one, u can roast marines quite good,
but only if other units take the dmg for the hellions, and terran has no units,
to force this focus.
That's why I wrote "can be"...it's an option and a good use of hellions, so I think that's okay.

[quote="zuPloed"]
Quote :
Eagle
not sure about this but in normal sc1 the accurate english name is "Vulture"
despite the german version names them "adler" (=eagle in english)[/quite]
Arg, Eagle kam mir gleich komisch vor, danke^^

zuPloed wrote:
i totally share ur playstyle of zerg, though ur guide is written like theres only that way,
there is a set of options for advanced players, to use speed-advantages
(for example if the player who spawns beforehand has lasting units like blinkstalkers
and u thereby creat an rly early doublewave)
I think those speed-things are for advanced players and not worth mentioning, even though I think I could somehow show a bit more that ling/bling (+speed roach if you want) is a viable strat.
Anyway roach/hydra with or with queen is just standart...

zuPloed wrote:
u might want to add that their mainweakness is sticking all in 1 spot,
and therby they are pretty weak lategame (fungal, storm, seakermissile, thor, archon...)
Thanks, added

zuPloed wrote:
Quote :
(always energy + fungal and/or neural parasite)
turn of the infested marine ability and u can save urself the 100 for energy
i do this 90% of the cases
Honestly I didnt try to turn of the marine...when looking at the icon I always thought thats not possible...will check that, thanks.

zuPloed wrote:
Quote :
Immortal
they are brutal at dealing with cannons and the pf,
few of them never hurt imho
I mentioned that they're good vs those structures, but still think that choice is up to the player. (I dont like getting them^^)

zuPloed wrote:
Quote :
Archon
they deal bonusdamage aginst bio-units
->good against zlots
Thanks, added.

zuPloed wrote:
Quote :
Scout
cant stress it enough 200 way is way to cheap for an air unit,
which deals as much dmg to armored as a charged voidray at the same hp and range!
still theyre bugged right now, so u should only consider them,
if theres NO ground unit in range when they fight
(as theyre now they tend do attack ground units first)
still theyre ridiculously cost eefficient against mainly air composed forces!
Thanks, added.
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PostSubject: Re: General Guide for Desert Strike 1338   Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:17 am

@left side panel

ah das kennst du also noch nicht^^
da links oben, unter den ganzen menü-buttons,
isn kleines kästchen w man ein häkchen reinmachen kann,
dann geht eine tabelle auf, mit allen einheitentypen deiner rasse drin,
die kannst du wiederum anwählen und hast alle upgrades und spells von dneen auf einen blick
UND kannst die auch an- und ausstellen, auch solche wos bei der einheit,
als nicht anklickbares feld ist.

wenn du schon tanzen miterwähnst dachte ich sollte man auch auf das ding hinweißen,
am esten du machst nen screenshot, und postest den auch, zb für stim auch recht nützlich,
oder eben für neuralparasit wennden nichtmehr willst.
beim phoenix funzt das aber zb nicht is aber auch das einzige was afaik bugged is zZ

edit: was ich mit den 45% meinte,
es ist ein wenig schlamig formuliert, und von mir auch nicht ganz durchdacht in der kritik,
aber: bei 45% mehr income denk ich an 45% mehr einheiten, was nicht stimmt,
es sind 15% mehr einheiten, und wenn man das konsequent durchrechnet kommt man darauf,
dass die erste raffinerie nur 3.3333% mehr einheiten gibt (also raffinerie eines spielers für das team insgesamt)
villei ist das am besten formuliert, wenn du irgendwie sagst,
dass mid-control mehr wert ist als 3 mal gas-1 und nix kostet.

edit2: ouuu ganz wichtig eins noch^^
der titel isn bissl overkill, es ist ein anfänger guide,
von einem ultimate würde ich ein wenig mehr erwarten^^
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PostSubject: Re: General Guide for Desert Strike 1338   Tue Jan 31, 2012 8:51 pm

I found the panel....very usefull, thanks^^

Okay, it's right, exact numbers would be 3,3% and 15% more units...anyway the important thing is that the middle is worth 4,5 times more...maybe ill edit this later.

Topic title was changed...I just like the word "ultimate guide" Very Happy

Denke englisch ist besser, falls jemand mitliest, oder? (Ich gehe davon aus, dass das kein deutsches Forum ist und das nur noch niemand gemerkt hat^^)
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PostSubject: Re: General Guide for Desert Strike 1338   Mon Feb 06, 2012 5:11 am

Just to have a more complete unit guide, i'd also like to offer my experience with each unit, starting with the Terrans:

Marine

There's just no excuse to skip this unit (speaking of public games). They should be the staple early game force you have, unless you need more specialized units. Once they reach a certain mass, they dominate other T1 units, or everything protoss has to throw at you that is not a colossus. Their mortal enemy is the aforementioned colossus (they become fodder for them), and the banelings. Once you see banelings, get a huge number of ravens to support your ground forces, otherwise they'll just disappear in an acidic cloud. Versus Colossi, don't sell them, at least you force some very expensive ground units until they are there, and are still worth it for the few seconds of DPS they'll do.

Marauder

A pretty crappy unit by itself. Do not start with these, as most typical T1 forces will just kill them. IMO the only use they have is dealing damage to units like Stalker, Immortal, Thor, Ultralisk, Roach. Definitely not an early game winner, but can be useful damage dealer. If your opponent goes for early colossi, Marauders can be used to take them down quickly (much quicker than viking). Keep in mind they only have 100 HP here, so they are definitely not a good meat shield.

Reaper

Kills light units very fast. Pretty much rules the early game, but becomes less useful with time. IMO all terran forces should definitely have a least a few of them, unless you are facing a full armored opposition. It is also a nice bonus that they take cannons down easily. If you are facing mass ravens, add a few reapers to get rid of the turrets faster (and also act as fodder for the seeker missiles). Reapers supported by Marauders are very powerful versus any unit combinations. OFC you don't need Marauders with them if there's no armored target.

Hellion

I've seen some semi-working mech builds with this, but generally they kinda suck. Might want to get a few to offset mass lings/marines or to hurt zealots some, but IMO you are better off with reapers and marines.

Vulture

I actually like this unit. It has a farily strong attack vs light targets, and leaves mines behind. I usually buy 2-4 of them (depending how comfortable I feel wasting some money on non-essential units) to clean up enemies that might get through my or my allies forces. Also great at preventing early wave stacking (when multiple waves survive and come at you together). Otherwise only buy it if you are comfortable with your ground forces and do not expect the enemy to take it to the air soon (like Protosses).

Medivac

Some people make the mistake of buying either too many of them, or too early on. If you plan on using stimpack, it does not hurt to get a few of these, as they can heal the damage caused by stimpack (stim manually before battle, auto-stim sucks). You might want to get a larger number (5-6) of them if you are facing AOE spells like storm or fungal. VS toss you should always get them, they can sometimes heal back the low DPS caused by toss units, and your infantry will dominate the battlefield until colossi arrive.

Viking

Not a very great unit. You might want to get a few to help with air targets, but generally your marines and later BCs or thors do a much better job at AA. They are utterly stupid too, getting in front of your troops to suicide into AA splash damage (pre stim your infantry, so they arrive earlier to prevent this). Also, you might want to prevent them from landing altogether (switch off their land ability) when facing colossi (it is a very pathetic sight when colossi fry landed vikings). Do not get more than 6-8, and only get so many if you are facing capital ships. They become absolutely necessary when facing broodlords, though.

Ghost

Very good unit to have in all 3 matchups. Essential vs Battlecruisers (depelete their energy to prevent them from yamato-ing) and Archon/Immortal (for obvious reasons). They are also very good at sniping any zerg unit (upgrade the energy reserves to have more snipe rounds). They kill light units fairly well (including Raven, Banshee and Phoenix), and are decent meat shields due to not having any bonus modifier attribute (with the exception of Archons +bio, they kill them fast). They are kind of expensive, so only buy them if you have a sizeable force to support them.

Siege Tank

Mostly good versus other terrans. At T2 they act like a longer ranged, slightly better Marauder, for a higher cost. (double). At T3 the siege ability can destroy ranged clumps with ease, but unfortunately it is countered very easily. Immortal-Colossus just rolls them, Broodlords actually make them a liability. Because they are countered so easy I usually do not bother with them, unless it is a TvT.

Raven

One of the best spellcasters. Their turrets make melee units a hell of a lot weaker (they attack those instead of your troops), and seeker missiles do devastating damage to ranged rows. PDD is less useful (only absorbs 5 missiles), but can give your air units some extra survivability. Upgrades to get:
- Building armor: makes your turrets and PDDs a bit more resilient, IMO you should always get this, unless you only use 1 raven for detection.
- Seeker Missile: the main attack of the raven, get it if you are planning to make use of multple ravens bombarding enemy forces.
- Raven energy: only get this, if you need more turrets to divert a lot of melee units. Not that useful.
- Durable Materials: makes your turrets last longer. IMO pretty useless, but sometimes it may help a buddy out. In 1v1 this becomes pretty nice, covering your army well, in case you get wiped.
- Turret Range: I almost never get it. Almost completely useless, as turrets are usually thrown in the enemy crowd, and that +1 range does not give any significantly more coverage.

Banshee

Pretty crappy unit. I found no use for them. They do decent DPS, and are almost useful vs protoss, but not much else. Costs too much to be effective, and gets killed by almost any AA attack, and if you mass them they'll be slaughtered by AOE.

Battlecruiser

The terran late game unit of choice should be this. They become really good if they are supported by a sufficient ground army and get upgrades. Yamato cannon is borderline broken, if the enemy does not counter it (feedback, EMP, neural parasite), they can say goodbye to their most powerful units. Take note, that yamato is not fired on Void Rays. To counter them, you need a lot of marines or Thors. I do not recommend vikings.

Thor

A very good late game unit. Tanks admirably for your other forces, and dishes out insane ground DPS. The AA missiles of the Thors are usually more of a liability than help, if not facing light air units (Vikings come in handy to help thors get through air faster). They become really good vs any air, once they reach a large enough number (due to overlapping AOE attacks). I suggest adding a few to any ground based force, but skipping them if you face capital ships. VS broodlords they can also be of help with their long range AA.
Cannons: I usually DO NOT get them. They make Thors go on suicide runs way closer than they should be.
When are cannons useful: vs Archons or Immortals (not THAT good, but decent, IMO it's a waste of money), and Ultralisks (actually good vs them as they come to you). Never research it vs Colossi, it's suicide.


Last edited by Zee on Mon Mar 05, 2012 11:15 am; edited 2 times in total
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PostSubject: Re: General Guide for Desert Strike 1338   Mon Feb 06, 2012 5:49 am

Protoss:

Zealot

Actually quite a risky unit, on par with Reapers in "risky-ness". They can dominate early game, but generally at T2 they start to become obsolete, melting to mass ranged fire. VS terran they can only last a few rounds, reapers kill them very efficiently. I suggest not even making more than one (for dance) vs Terrans, and never researching charge. VS zerg they might be needed to help clear zerglings and banelings. Toss does not heave a really good counter for them, so zealot away in PvP (Archons become an issue when facing 4-5+ of them, but in low numbers, zealots are actually a good counter to archons due to relatively high DPS).

Stalker

Absolutely depends on the matchup. Vs Terran, they are necessary, and currently the only way to help keep infantry based forces at bay. Research blink ASAP, and support them with sentries. Vs Zerg, they are quite good at killing roaches (their blink micro is near perfect), but get eaten by lings. You will need both zealots and stalkers. Vs toss they are useless. They get countered by both Zealots and Immortals, and are not even good at killing archons, but might be necessary to help vs air. With the addition of scouts, AA is done much better by those, so just forget them in PvP.

Sentry

Very good support unit. Don't forget to activate their shields before the battle begins manually, as they have a short range and only switch the shield on when attacking. They are a must have versus terran, otherwise marines will just roll over you. 2 sentries are usually enough to cover a decent sized force, buy more if you face more marauders, as they tank marauder grenades surprisingly well.
Hallucination: it is a useful cover for your air forces (including Colossi). Automatically it summons all kind s of units, all of them air air based targets, so they can distract AA units for quite some time.

Immortal

This should be your staple ground domination unit. In numbers, it defeats almost anything on the ground, if it has proper support. Scales very well with upgrades, so get them ASAP. They also tank very well, but are useless vs any air. Get them, even if the enemy has no armored units, just for the tankiness and as a deterrent (although get archons first in this case).

Archon

Also a very good unit. It is quite useful for its anti-air splash damage. Terrans have easier time againist them (marines and EMP), but all zerg units take bonus damage from it, and Toss has no good counter for them. Ironically, if you are facing EMPs, you should get archons, as they soak up a nice amount of EMP damage, and kills the ghost faster than any other protoss unit. Sentry support is mandatory due to low armor. Since they scale very well, you can get as many as you like vs Zerg or Toss. They can also kill zealots fast, IF they have the cover of your zealots.

Dark Templar

Almost completely useless. Any more than 1-2 is a complete waste of your money. Once there is detection. they are as good as dead, even with zealot cover, and that 200 price tag is just very high. Vs toss they might be half-decent, as observers are easy to kill, and their damage helps vs Archons. You may consider getting ONE, if the enemy stays on T1 for too long.

Void Ray

Very crappy in low numbers, but gets useful as numbers go up. Late game, they are needed to counter BCs, Corruptors and Carriers. They also do moderately well vs Archons, but get a decent ground army first, and add VRs later, as they are very weak without ground cover. Hallucination also helps them out.

Scout

Wonderful AA, but sucky at killing ground. Currently, it receives no bonus from damage upgrades, so switch to VR ASAP. I usually get 4-5 of these if the enemy starts bringing in air units. This unit is basically better than Phoenixes in almost every situation.

Phoenix

A crappy AA unit, and an unpredictable disable spell. You can cast it manually, but it is usually not worth the micro. Does almost no damage to Corruptors, BCs and Carriers. Might want to get 1-2 to help clear Ravens, banshees or mass mutalisks. Can be sometimes a nice addition versus queens and immortals, but don't count on it.

Observer

Get one if you need detection, simple as that. It can get killed very easily, but it also unlocks a scan ability, so no problem there.

High Templar

Not that great caster. It is helpful vs massed enemy weak units, in fact it is very good at killing zerglings, but not so good vs marines (esp. if they have medivac support). Feedback is actually a more useful spell on them, helping VS any caster. Storm can be good vs stacked air units. I usually get 2 of them, and if the game drags on and more FB is needed, i get another two. Any more than that is quite wasteful.

Colossus

Must have versus Terran, get the range upgrade ASAP, and also get weapon upgrades as it scales well. Pretty much dominates the ground if a large enough number is acquired, and is well protected by other units (use immortals as meat shields). Sentries with hallucination also complement them well. Even if the enemy does BCs, you should still get them, as they either go under them and bang on the fortress (with their siege range), or kill their infantry support, making your ground units target the BCs. A large number of them is also necessary, if you are to have any chance at facing Broodlords, as they one-shot broodlings, de-locking your ground army.

Carrier

Not that great unit by itself, but gets good once numbers go up. It fails miserably versus battlecruisers, but does good DPS once upgraded, and if protected by a thick wall of ground units. It also makes a semi-decent counter to Broodlords due to the fairly long range.
Do not get them until you are well ahead and want to secure your win, or if the game starts to drag.
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PostSubject: Re: General Guide for Desert Strike 1338   Mon Feb 06, 2012 6:36 am

Zerg:

Zergling

You can place them on your refineries/geysers, so you should definitely do that, since zerg is a very space consuming race. For slow-zerg style (no speed upgrades), only get a handful of them. For speedzerg, they are the initial fodders and cleanup-squad. They do very good DPS, but are only useful with their speed upgrade. Don't forget the T3 attack speed upgrade for them, if you have lings. Don not use them in ZvZ (except the few that are on the geyser), as they have a lot of very very hard counters from zerg.

Roach

The standard initial ground assault unit. Goes well with speed zerg (if speed upgraded, keeps up with lings), as well as the staple unit of slow-zerg. I usually open with at least one and a half horizontal row of them. They also scale with damage upgrades, so get them.
Slow zerg opening is usually quite flexible, since it allows transitioning into speed-zerg, if you need it, where with speed zerg you cannot de-upgrade your speed.
Tunneling Claws: this upgrade is kind of risky. It makes your roaches clump up a lot, when unburrowing, making them very susceptible to splash damage. It helps keeping them alive a bit longer due to regeneration, making them better support for allies. It also helps ultralisks find their way through roach walls.

Baneling

Most useful with speed upgrades (speed zerg style), but it is fairly good anyway. Completely rapes any terran infantry, you can even mix a few of them into a slow-zerg force, to help vs terran. In zerg versus zerg they help defeat the fool who tries to use mass zergling tactics. Despite how good they are, do not go banelings only, as Protosses and Zergs have a quite easy time dealing with baneling heavy armies.

Queen

The only Tier 1 AA for the zerg. It also servers as a direct, or indirect tank. It has no damage modifiers, so it is only vulnerable to Archons. In general they are very useful vs the low DPS of Protosses or Zergs, less useful vs Terrans. Combined with hyrdalisks they can form a wall of pretty strong AA defense. Queens only go well with slow-zerg as they are quite slow and lack a speed upgrade. Also, don't be afraid to buy a lot of them if the enemy has a lot of air units or colossi, as not only will they help keep the army in good shape, but they also do some acceptable AA damage (they usually like to focus colossi, if they get close). They are very poor versus ground, though, and their damage is almost nullified by guardian shield (it has effect on the claws for some reason)

Hydralisk

Pretty crappy by itself, almost any generalist unit defeats it (stalker, marine), but shines with Roaches to tank for them, and Queens to heal them. They are basically the only zerg ground AA that does any decent DPS. Upgrade their range ASAP, as it will help keep them away from the harm. They are very good versus Protoss, and pretty much the only option versus a lot of Archons. They also only go with slow-zerg, because, well, they are slow.

Lurker

The new addition. Seems to be buggy, as it has 8 range, but it's attack does not actually rach to range 8. It is kind of a crappy unit, does not have a lot of uses. What it does well, is kill Ultralisks (only in numbers, if supported by something that tanks for them), and maybe roaches. Vs Terran or Protoss they are not useful at all. They also cost a lot of money, and are rather stupid, sometimes unburowing in the middle of a fight. They are also probably the slowest zerg units on creep.

Infestor

A very good spellcaster, but extremely vulnerable. Fungal growth makes any melee unit, that is not an Ultralisk pretty useless. It also utterly devastates terran infantry (much better than storm due to immobilization and larger area). It also helps with clumped air units. Neural parasite is a lot trickier spell, as it can be useless a lot of times. Only research it versus large protoss units (Archon, Immortal), and capital ships. Infested terrans are a nice extra AA power, but sometimes Infestory waste too much energy on creating those. Only slowzerg speed.

Mutalisk

Not that useful air unit. They can dish out some nice damage in numbers, but Zerg is very space consuming, and you are much better off saving space for better units. A few of them can help out Corruptors in an air to air battle, but they can be skipped altogether. Goes in speed with speedzerg.

Overseer

The best detector unit. It can either move at slow-zerg speed, or upgrade the speed to speed-zerg levels. It has 200 HP and 1 armor, making it quite tanky. Otherwise it is not good for anything else, so only buy one. Might be used as a kind of "Zerg hallucination", distracting AA units from more important targets.

Overlord

Best if you don't get them, as they can screw up your nice little slowzerg ball. They can be used to create the "Ultimate Zerg" style, where you can use both speedy and slow units, as they move around the same speed on creep. Still, be warned at a distance your units will arrive in a single line. Also good at slowing the enemy down somewhat.

Corruptor

Pretty much the only solution zerg has at air to air combat. In large numbers it can dominate the skies, but not good for anything else. Quite tanky, so it can stay under fire and still kill quite a few airborne units. Good vs capital ships, although Battlecruisers can yamato them down Evil or Very Mad , so you'll need to outnumber BCs 2.5:1 - 3:1 to win, and that is a lot of wasted space. Moves at speedzerg speeds (even faster than muta Rolling Eyes ), but due to its tankiness you can add them to slowzerg armies too (at least they start to work on colossi before those fry your units).

Ultralisk

Unfortunately a speedzerg-only unit. It tanks damage admirably, especially vs Terran, and kills mech or roaches very fast. In ZvZ it is useful against mass infestors (pretty much immune to them), and does much better with ling/bling support. Armor upgrade is mandatory for them.
They also kill buildings extremely fast.

Broodlord

Probably the best unit in the game. As all T3 units, it does not do too good alone, it needs a nice support, but when it has that, it really shines. Protoss has pretty much no way of moving forward, if 4-5 broodlords constantly spam their broodlings, and even Terran has quite a trouble. If numbers go up, it goes absolutely out of proportion, resulting in very one sided battles. They usually survive until reinforcements arrive. They are very slow, even slowzerg is faster than them. Once you get a decent number of them up, focus on AA and you are invincible.
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PostSubject: Re: General Guide for Desert Strike 1338   Mon Mar 05, 2012 12:20 pm

Specific matchup guides:

TvT:

- Open with Marine/Reaper. Marines are good and cheap fodder for Reapers, and Reapers are the preferred DPS dealers. With stimpack researched and medivac support marines will be hands down better, but early game matters a lot. Continue pushing them until you are either in a comfortable lead (pushed beyond middle, almost to cannon), or the enemy starts using T2.

- Next, tech to T2, and start adding a few Ravens. Research building armor and seeker missiles. If you have a few ravens (enough to wipe half of their infantry in one missile volley) add Ghosts. First research energy and then EMP. Cloak is unnecessary as any decent T will have Ravens and if not your Ravens will just kill them.

Tips vs Raven: research Reaper speed when reapers are no longer the dominating factor in inf vs inf. They'll be good fodder for missiles and clean up some turrets. Stim ahead a few marines to draw seeker missiles away from your force. If the enemy is doing this, add more Ghosts to snipe forwarded units, and do this with your own units to prevent your Ravens from shooting. (or turn off the seeker missile until they ball up)

- Next step will be T3. Again, if you feel in lead, or the enemy starts bringing in T3, tech up. Add at least 3 BCs before you start doing upgrades for them. Research PDD on Ravens to help with BC vs BC fights. EMP is a must now, as Yamato will kill you if you don't EMP. Keep in mind that EMP costs no energy, so you cannot prevent enemy EMPs with well placed EMPs of your own. To make the most out of your EMPs do it manually (unnecessary for public games, usually your opponent is not that good that this matters).

- If the enemy has more BCs than you, add some Vikings. Not a lot, only a few to help with the DPS. If the enemy does vikings, add Thors. Not only they are good at killing Ravens, they also demolish massed Vikings with ease. Try to have more BCs than the enemy, as they are the most effective unit you have, even if you don't Yamato.

Force to shoot for:
- 1.5-2 row (1 row: the left to right space between the edge of your platfrom and the rocks) of marines and reapers
- 4-5 Ravens
- 2 Medivacs (for pre-stimmed marines)
- 0.5-1 row of Ghosts (if you become full, sell your marines and reapers for more Ghosts and BCs)
- Rest Battlecruiser
- If enemy has Vikings: 4-5 Thors
- If enemy has Thors: enemy Thor * 2 Marauders
- If enemy beats you to BC race: 4-8 Vikings

TvZ:

- The opening is a complete gambit due to Banelings and Zerglings. Generally the best Zerg strategy is to open with Roaches and Lings, so you should counter with Reapers and Marauders. Since Roaches are dirt cheap it is very doubtful that you will have the lead early on vs any competent zerg.

Tips vs Banelings: if you see so much that you are not likely to kill them, just let them be and tech to T2 and proceed to Ravens. Buy a few Marauders to absorb most of them. Dance your leftover Marauders so the next wave will waste Blings on them. Marines can actually counter Banes well, if you have a critical mass, stim and upgrades, but marines are not recommended vs any competent zerg.

- If the zerg does not have or has only a few banelings, continue with the ground war.
General composition:
Reapers: you should not spend more on these than the enemy spends on zerglings as a general rule. Roach will be your main enemy.
Marines: add these as soon as queens show up. Since both Marauders and Reapers have trouble vs them, they'll be needed. Competent zergs will add their queens once they have enough Roaches.
Marauders: the rest.

- When the battle goes to T2, start adding Ravens. Research Seeker Missile, PDD and Building Armor (in this order, although prefer the armor if the enemy lacks quens/hydras). Good zergs will add Infestors as soon as they reach T2 which will hurt like hell. Add an increasing number of medivacs to combat the FG. Add Ghosts to EMP Infestors to prevent any more FGs or queen healing + they snipe units for good damage.

- Start the T3 with Battlecruisers. Research Yamato ASAP. Yamato will help you with your most vicious enemies like Infestors. At T3 just spam Ghosts and BCs. If Broodlords start appearing add more Marines. Don't be shy with Marines if you see them. A few Vikings can also help vs BLs and Corruptors.

Tips vs Broodlords:
Early Broodlords mean that he probably cut some corners to get them. Mass marines and reapers like crazy to kill him early. Some Vikings can also help, but do not overdo them, Vikings are wasted money if they just get annihilated by a few well placed FG. An other solution is to get critically massed Thors. I do not really like this, as this costs a lot of resources and Broodlords do not like to stack much.

Force to shoot for:
- 1.5-2 row of Reapers and Marauders
- 0.5-1 row of Marines (more if he has a lot of Queens, Mutas or Broodlords)
- 3-5 Ravens
- 5-6 Medivacs
- 0.5-1 row of Ghosts
- Rest Battlecruisers
- If he has way too many Banelings, add a few Vultures
- If he has way too many Corruptors, add more Ghosts and a few Vikings.
- If Ultralisks are being problematic (usually they should not be), add more Marauders, Ghosts, Thors (get cannons to avoid having to upgrade them) or BCs with Yamato. Pick your poison.

TvP:

As of now it is very very easy to win this. Late game Toss will give you some problems, but if you are on 1v1 late game will never happen.

- Start with Marauders and Reapers. Only buy as much Reapers as it is necessary to kill Zealots. Reapers are also good vs Sentries. If the toss is smart, he'll realize that the only way to beat you is to mass blink Stalkers with some sentries. To beat this combo have a few marines and a lot of Marauders. The Ratio should be something like 1-2-4 Reaper-Marine-Marauder (Reapers and Marines come 2 at a time, so it'll be 2-4-4 units). If the only light units are sentries, only buy as much Reapers as he has Sentries. Do not research speed.

- At T2 storms will give you some trouble, use Medivacs to heal the damage back. Add a few Ravens for the Seeker Missiles, PDD and Turrets. Turret armor is not only a luxury addition here. At this point if the enemy was dumb enough to only get zealots he will die horribly now (not that Reapers do not slaughter them enough).

- Archons are a different issue, and should be dealth with adding a lot of Marines and a few Ghosts. Ghosts are a good idea anyway since EMP makes the toss even weaker than it is already.

- T3 will be an other pain for you, as Colossi will make your so far unchallenged (or partly challenged by Templars) dominance vanish in seconds. If the enemy rushes for Colossus, add a load of more Marauders and finish off the fool. If colossi come as a late addition, I suggest adding Thors. They can absorb a fair amount of punishment and can clean up Colossi. The bane of Thors are two things: hallucinations or Void Rays. Both make them use their weak ass AA. Void Rays are even good at killing them. Also start adding BCs. By the time the toss reached a critical mass of Colossi (now your infantry pretty much dies in seconds) you should have enough to deal with his Stalkers and leftover units. Thors and Ravens with Seeker Missiles also help here, as they soften up any AA the Toss might have.

Yamato: only research it, if the enemy has: Colossi with no hallucination or other type of air cover (which is a stupid thing to do) or Carriers

Force to shoot for:
- 1.5-3 row of Marine/Reaper/Marauder. More if necessary.
- 4-6 Medivacs (depending on how much storm they have. Add even more if he is adding more templars.
- 3-4 Ravens
- 0.5-1 row of Ghosts. Add more in case of lots of Archons and Immortals.
- 4-5 Thors
- Rest Battlecruisers
- If he has way too much Void Rays or Scouts, add a few Vikings, max 1 row. Also consider adding more Ravens to soften them up, more Marines to shoot them down, and some Ghosts to EMP them. If the enemy relies on scouts and stalkers for AA, add a lot of PDDs.
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PostSubject: Re: General Guide for Desert Strike 1338   Mon Mar 05, 2012 1:22 pm

PvP:

- Early on it's a head on zealot fight. Do not buy a single stalker yet. If you win, add a few sentries and proceed to T2. If you lose, you'll need an earlier T2. Add a single Dark Templar, and start doing Archons.

- At T2 it will turn into Zealot/Archon. Since Archons reach their peak efficiency pretty fast, you'd be wiser to start adding other type of units. I prefer VRs, as they can deal with Archons the best out of the choices available now. One Dark Templar also helps a little with the Archon/Zealot fight, but you should never buy more than one, since they are very weak and expensive. If the enemy does VRs first, respond with Stalker/Sentry. If the enemy does Stalkers, respond with Immortals. If the enemy does Immortals, add more Archons, and a few VRs. If he has more than 5 Immortals, add at least two of your own for safety's sake. Immortals are beastly versus defensive buildings, and if critically massed they are very effective vs ground.

- Delay T3 as much as possible. Immortals, Archons and VRs are better than anything T3 vs toss. Once the scene becomes crowded, or you are in a comfortable lead, Colossi will start to become useful. IMO any more than 3-4 Colossus is overdoing it, and should be responed with increasing your unit count and pushing to win, or going more heavy on air units. Carriers are only for the very very late game, though, so stick to VRs, and add Scouts if the enemy starts doing air unit too.

Force to shoot for:
- 1-1.5 row of Zealots (more if enemy slacks up with archon numbers or decides to go immortals)
- 2 sentry (add more later if you need hallucinations and more shield cover, max 1 row)
- 0.5-1 row of Archons
- 2-infinity Immortals (add as many as necessary. The enemy having lots of Stalkers, Colossi or Immortals is a good sign that you need to add more)
- 6-10 VRs
- 1 DT, 1 Observer
- Rest Carriers (start adding Carriers if you are way ahead, or if you already have almost everything else on this list save for only a few)
- If the enemy has air units, add Stalkers, 0.5-2 rows
- Also consider adding Scouts in that case, 2-5 max. If scout damage upgrades get patched, you may safely add a lot more.

PvT:

- Start with 1 no-charge zealot (it is good for the early game) and Stalkers. Once you have like 3-5 Stalkers, add 2 Sentries (don't forget to activate the shield before the action starts). This Stalker/Sentry combo actually beats marines for cost. Prefer armor upgrades to damage ones. I do not recommend zealots at all, even if the enemy does nothing but Marauders - in this case, add a lot of sentries - as zealots are very easily countered by reapers, making your investment completely worthless.

- Get T2 as soon as the enemy does. Your first priority should be to add 2-3 Templars with Storm. Then mass Immortals like no tomorow. Critically massed Immortals are good enough vs infantry. If the enemy relies heavily on Reaper/Marauder, add a few Archons. Archons are also a wise choice to act as an EMP sponge, plus the damage bio well.

- You will be hard pressed until you reach T3. At this point, 1-2 Colossi will be like a redemption. Get the T3 damage upgrade ASAP, it makes Colossi godly. Storm + Colossi should clear up the ground quickly. Now you'll have to start worrying about BCs, and defending the Colosi. Colossi are pretty safe from the ground if you have a load of Immortals. Sentries with hallucination keeps them safe from air.
If you notice the first BC, your first priority should be to clear the ground even faster. Add an extra Colossus or a HT. Your stalkers should be able to deal with the initial 2-3 BCs. By this time you should start adding scouts, 2-5 max (as they do not receive upgrades - if this gets patched soon, ignore this and get a lot of scouts). VRs should be your main counter to the BC force. Their counter to your VRs will be Ravens and Thors, which you will have to counter with ground units. Also add 2-3 Phoenixes to troll Ravens. Carriers are pretty much not necessary at all, and should only be added if the space starts to run low.

Force to shoot for:
- 1.5-2 row of Stalkers
- 0.5-1 row of Sentries
- 2-4 Templars (add a bit more if a lot of casters are around to help with feedback)
- 1 row of Immortals
- 2-5 Colossi, depending on how much infantry they have
- 2-4 Scouts
- Rest VRs
- If the enemy is Ghost heavy, add 2-4 Archons to act as EMP bait. The rest of your army will thank you for it.
- If space starts to run out, add Carriers.
- If stealth units annoy you too much, add 1 observer, but it is not necessary, since Terran stealth units are not dangerous.

PvZ:

- Start with 4 zealots. This is a great early game start, as the beat Roaches. Research charge ASAP. From then on, only buy just enough Zealots so that lings do not become a problem. You will need Stalkers as quickly as possible. Blink stalkers are pretty efficient vs Roaches, if they are not supported by lings. In case of too many lings/banes or queens, tech to T2, and buy Templars and Archons.

- T2: Hydralisks will become a major pain in the ass from here on out. They wipe zealots very quickly and also damage all of your units well. The key to killing them is to get rid of the defending Roaches/Queens as quickly as possible + always having Guardian Shield on. Start to mass Immortals like crazy, if the enemy is Roach Heavy, but you will need Archons for Queen heavy enemies. Getting both is also a good idea. High Templars are also nice to have, they damage Hydras decently and feedback queens and infestors.

- T3: this is where things will start to go sour. Broodlords will make your army look like a bunch of retards chasing butterflies. It is imperative to reach T3 before your opponent does, and be prepared with lots of Archons. If the enemy rushes to T3 Broodlords, then it will be a race to the Fortress. Their forces will be likely weaker than yours, so you can roll them to the PF with enough Archons/Immortals and a few Scouts.
Colossi are very good at clearing up Broodlings, that will be their primary purpose, and it is the reason you should not get too much of them (they really like to overkill). Scouts will help finish off Broodlords, but only buy a few of them as they are relatively useless vs ground. At this point start to mass VRs. Not only will they kill Corruptors in tandem with your scouts, they are also decent Broodling and Broodlord killers. At this point an all-out air tech-switch is viable, if you have not invested too much into T2 and none at all into T3. Gradually sell your ground troops and buy lots of VRs and a few Carriers.

Air switch possible respones:
Mass Corruptors: what you want them to do, so it is the best scenario. VRs with a little Scout support beat Corruptors, so you'll be fine.
Hydralisk/Queen/Infestor: what you don't want. This will be tough to beat, you will need a lot of Carriers, only add VRs and Scouts if the enemy adds Corruptors
Mass Ultralisks: can be dangerous, they run right under your forces and beat up your Fortress. If you see Ultras, be sure to keep a few Archons and Immortals. The good thing will be, that while your forces will stay in one big ball, the enemy will split up, as Ultras will surge forward, while Broodlords remain behind.

Force to shoot for:
- 4 Zealots (more if the enemy has too much lings)
- 1.5-2 row of Stalkers
- 2 Sentries (add more later with Hallucination, they are great at distracting Corruptors)
- 1-1.5 row of Immortals and Archons (Roach/Queen/Ultralisk heavy armies might need more)
- 2-4 Templars
- 2-4 Colossi
- Rest Carriers
- If the enemy has Corruptors, buy VRs as much as necessary, with the support of 2-5 scouts
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PostSubject: Re: General Guide for Desert Strike 1338   Mon Mar 19, 2012 1:48 am

- General Zerg tip: DO NOT buy overlords.

ZvZ:

- Do not go mass zerglings. Putting 3 pools on the gases is a good idea, but no more. Zerglings are very easily countered by a lot of zerg stuff, and ultimately are useless beyond very early game. However in very early game they are even better than Roaches. My usual starting army is 2 pool 2 roach warren.

- Early on Roaches rule. Don't forget to get the +1 attack so they kill lings in 2 hits, unless they have armor too (regeneration adds +1 hp). If the enemy has too many lings for your roaches to handle, consider adding 1-2 baneling nests. They will be useless anyway in T2. Add Queens once your roach number is sufficient, or if the enemy tries anything cutesy like fast mutalisks (doomed strategy BTW).

- T2: if the enemy went mass ling, you should go Infestors immediately, completely negating their army. It can be a quick win, however be aware that they'll probably opt for a quick T3 with either Broodlords or Ultralisks. Zergling + Ultralisk is a decent combo and might pose a danger, however I do not recommend it, as it gets beaten by Broodlord + slowzerg.
Otherwise in normal slowzerg vs slowzerg you want Hydralisks first (get 3-4 at least), then add Infestors. I usually stop at 4 infestors and a couple of Hydras, and proceed to T3, or if the enemy pulls something unexpected, counter it.
What to do vs early Ultralisks: get a decent wall of Hydralisks, and 3-4 Lurkers. Yes, Lurkers are pretty useless, but they hurt Ultralisks well + they are decent versus roaches too, but I'd not recommend them over Infestors (they cost the same). Infestors are however nigh-useless vs Ultralisks.

- T3: Broodlords. Get 2 ASAP (no need for any upgrades). The enemy will probably realize they are in big trouble once they see Broodlords, so they'll immediately counter with Corruptors. To counter Broodlords yourself, you will need a metric ton of Corruptors. So at this stage it will devolve into mass corruptor vs corruptor to control the skies, Whoever controls the skies, has the Broodlords. Whoever has the Broodlords wins.

Tips to win Corruptor vs Corruptor battles:
Infestors really help. Neural parasite is great, fungal and IT-s also help.
Queens. They heal Corruptors. Nuff' said.
Hydralisks and mutalisks might provide additional DPS. Don't overdo them, as they both get f*d in the a* by broodlings.

Force to shoot for:
- 1-1.5 row of Roaches, more if the enemy insist on massing roaches.
- at least 4 queens, more later (up to 10)
- 6-8 Hydralisks. No need for more, Queens and Infestors will be better at AA, but they are critically needed at the start of T2. Once it develops into mass air fight, you might sell roaches for more hydras and queens.
- at least 4 infestors, more later (up to 10)
- at least 2 Broodlords, no more than 8. 8 Broodlords should keep any ground army constantly occupied with broodlings, no need for more.
- 1 Overseer as necessary
- rest Corruptors.

ZvT:

- Either speedbane + speedling, or slowzerg start. Slowzerg should start with many roaches and a few lings, speedzerg should start with banelings right away. I prefer slowzerg since it allows for greater ball-compatibility and better synergy with Broodlords.

- As with ZvZ: only buy a few lings for early game domination and distraction for Marauders. Ususally the 3 pools on the gases are enough. Mass Roaches and Queens.

- T2: Immediately start producing Infestors. By this time the Terran should be catching up with your roaches, and T's better "Critical Massability" starts to be a factor. Infestors cut right into this, reducing M&M balls into helpless figures waiting to be knocked down. Hydralisks will greatly speed up the knocking down process, while the enemy will be forced to add a great deal of Medivacs to keep at least some of his forces alive.

- Sieged Tanks beat slowzerg T2, but keep in mind that it is a T3 tech, and by T3 you should be pumping Broodlords, which pretty much turn them into friendly units (splash on their own stuff). Tanks are really not a problem for speedzerg, and should continue to switch into Ultralisks to counter Thors and anything else.

- Slowzerg and Speedzerg T3 greatly differs. Slowzerg opts for air domination through critically massed Corruptors (don't be shy, mass them like no tomorrow), and Broodlords holding the ground with your leftover ground army + Queens and Infestors for their spells. Speedzerg however opts for ground domination with ling/bane/ultra forces, AA being an afterthought. Since late game pretty much revolves around air units, it is not hard to see why slowzerg is better.

Tips vs Terran Air:
Battlecruisers are painful. You need like 3 times the amount of Corruptors to win. Infestors do not help, since they are too slow. As silly as it sounds, you can start using Ultralisks vs BC-s. Not only do they fire their Yamato on them, they also survive the Yamato, and will continue dealing some damage + are much cheaper than a BC. If using ultras, consider switching into a semi-speed zerg (or ultimate zerg) mode, with Roaches, Lings and Banes on speed, Hydras and Queens behind with Broodlords, Corruptors somewhere in-between.
Viking are weak. Toss in a couple of Mutalisks to distract them, FGs and Queens will take care of them, if Corruptors would die. Even mass Corruptors should be fine, if you keep up with the upgrades (they are vastly more cost effective).

Force to shoot for:
- 1-1.5 row of Roaches
- at least 4 queens, more later (up to 10)
- at least 4 infestors, more later (up to 10)
- 6-8 Hydralisks. No need for more, Queens and Infestors will be better at AA, but they are critically needed at the start of T2.
- at least 3 Broodlords, no more than 8. 8 Broodlords should keep any ground army constantly occupied with broodlings, no need for more.
- 1 Overseer as necessary
- rest Corruptors.

ZvP:

- Zerglings with speed might be a tempting idea, but consider Toss T2 and T3. So many counters. Even with that, Ling+Ultra works the best vs toss probably. I'd go for slowzerg, start with 2 roach, 2 pool, add a bit more pools (even up to 5) if he has a zillion zealots, but rely mainly on Roaches. Get carapace upgrades ASAP to keep your lings relevant. Missile attacks scale nicely.

- T2: Hydralisks first, get a lot of them, they'll be needed. Then Infestors. Far less useful if the enemy follows my PvZ guide, but very useful vs zealots, and also vs Hallucinations. Get Hydra range ASAP to keep them at the back.

Simple strategy:
heavy on Immortals -> go heavy on Queens and Hydras
heavy on Templars -> go heavy on Roaches
heavy on Archons -> heavy Hydras, Tech to T3 quickly for the Neural Parasite
heavy on Zealots -> laugh and get like 4 Infestors.

- T3: add Broodlords. This will promptly force the enemy 1: to switch to all air, or 2: to add a lot of AA. Corruptors suck more vs Toss air than vs others. Both Scouts and VRs beat them. You'll need a lot of Queens to help them with damage and keep them alive.


Force to shoot for:
- 1-1.5 row of Roaches, more if the enemy has massed templars.
- at least 4 queens, more later
- 6-8 Hydralisks, more if there are lots of Archons/Immortals
- at least 4 infestors, more later (up to 10)
- at least 2 Broodlords, no more than 8. 8 Broodlords should keep any ground army constantly occupied with broodlings, no need for more.
- 1 Overseer as necessary
- rest Corruptors and Queens.
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PostSubject: Re: General Guide for Desert Strike 1338   Tue Mar 27, 2012 12:18 pm

Nice guide (and nice info from others in this thread), but if you aim to remedy "really bad players" on bnet, the unit section should be as detailed as the economy section. For every tight bnet game lost because one team kept hold of the middle, there's a game thrown by someone's units. When opponents make hellions/vultures/thors it's gg.

Phoenix
vs mutalisk/banshee/raven/phoenix - 16.2 dps
vs viking/void - 9.0 dps
vs corruptor/battlecruiser(DS)/carrier - 5.4 dps
"Air superiority unit" in description only. Aside from punishing muta noobs and cleaning up ravens, they have a rare use as a meatshield (e.g. in void vs void, I substitute 1-2 voids with phoenixes, no damage lost because they're the first to die anyway) but even that is dependent on phoenixes not getting a chance to fly ahead of your voids/carriers. On the bright side, they can tank EMPs ahead of your army, as chargelots do.

Thor
Great ground dps but playtime's over as soon as the opponent adds 1 medivac/overseer/etc. Good against mass raven, mass viking (no front line), and the kind of air congestion seen really late on(35 mins, when a game is ending) or 25-30 mins when 2 players stack up and you need all the aoe you can get to bring the army down. But usually, buying thors in DS is pwning yourself.

High Templar
Storms don't stack (it also seems nerfed).

Baneling
If you commit to banelings, your army needs to be valid against all 3 players (pretty much "three aggressive Terrans"). If your army fails against your far(next) opponent, you can't finish the game. If your army fails against your near(previous) or mid(main) opponent, you have no chance at all.

Queen
An underrated unit... that can endanger the whole game. One of the more mysterious ways people lose DS games is from enemy armies combining (which then mow down the cannon or PF).
This happens when someone's army has bad dps (relative to it's endurance), and the other guy's isn't much better. Queens have the strongest effect, but also Roaches Stalkers and Ravens. If your engagements take so long that the next pair of players arrive, you need to have the upper hand against your opponent, and hope the opponent's teammate isn't coming with marines (or that your teammate is). Hydras fix your dps.

Vulture
Mines make it harder for the other team to kill your cannon or PF, but moving forward all you've got is a unit as bad as a hellion.


Last edited by Patrick on Tue Mar 27, 2012 10:07 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : edit)
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