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 Baneling (with lings based on comp)

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Edmon
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PostSubject: Re: Baneling (with lings based on comp)   Tue Jun 07, 2011 8:14 pm

Medusa wrote:
Hey Edmond, before raging yourself out and blaming me for only teorycrafting it is infact you who use this tehnique to counter my suggestion. Both of them are taken from my praxis. I dident tell it is the perfect counter, but it works. And as we all knew, the map does not work like on paper, sometimes units spread out, you have some others from one of the last wave so it looks different.
Hey, but anyway, thanks for calling me as a new poster welcome to this forum.

It doesn't work if the player doing the strategy has a decent number of screening lings. I can see it working against pure bane spam, but that is not what I said Smile.

Whatever, doesn't matter.
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PostSubject: Re: Baneling (with lings based on comp)   Tue Jun 07, 2011 7:29 pm

Hey Edmond, before raging yourself out and blaming me for only teorycrafting it is infact you who use this tehnique to counter my suggestion. Both of them are taken from my praxis. I dident tell it is the perfect counter, but it works. And as we all knew, the map does not work like on paper, sometimes units spread out, you have some others from one of the last wave so it looks different.
Hey, but anyway, thanks for calling me as a new poster welcome to this forum.
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Edmon
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PostSubject: Re: Baneling (with lings based on comp)   Tue Jun 07, 2011 5:59 am

Sylon wrote:
I dont know, but for me Hellions -> Tanks -> mariens was quite a solution, but the problem with that is that it can get owned by air.

Hellions are pretty good now actually, I've had some success with them.

I actually play random so I play with and against almost everything Smile.

They kill the leading lings, leaving only banelings. Which weakens the build a lot.

But yeah, it's not so hot against air.
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PostSubject: Re: Baneling (with lings based on comp)   Tue Jun 07, 2011 5:57 am

I dont know, but for me (Hellions -> Tanks -> mariens) was quite a solution, but the problem with that is that it can get owned by air.

I also thought about changing hellion back to normal: 2 -> 2.5 attakspeed
+ decreasing cost to: 90/95$

But i'am not sure atm


Last edited by Sylon on Tue Jun 07, 2011 6:02 am; edited 3 times in total
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Edmon
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PostSubject: Re: Baneling (with lings based on comp)   Tue Jun 07, 2011 5:51 am

Sylon wrote:
There are different aspects you need to keep in mind:

1. Decreasing baneling splash also make them weaker aigainst protos/zerg

2. Some mid to lategame units 'can' mess up the banelings 'quite good':
(Immortal, Archon, Tank, Thor, Ultra, Broodlords)

3. Banelings in groups with zerglings/roaches, are able to get 'very powerfull', 'very fast'

4. The fact that banelings can crush armys very fast, make them a huge factor for holding the middle.
- winning banelings = no inc for the enemy/maby holding the middle
- failing banelings =easy middle for the enemys

Yeah I agree with these points except some of number 2.

Archons, Ultra, Broodlord definitely work very well.
Immortal, Tank, Thor have the issue they are extremely weak to zerglings (tanks are only so because they siege slowly, if they have pre-sieged for some reason, they own them hard. being able to force your tanks to siege early might be a good fix but could cause other issues).
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PostSubject: Re: Baneling (with lings based on comp)   Tue Jun 07, 2011 5:47 am

There are different aspects you need to keep in mind:

1. Decreasing baneling splash also make them weaker aigainst protos/zerg

2. Some mid to lategame units 'can' mess up the banelings 'quite good':
(Immortal, Archon, Tank, Thor, Ultra, Broodlords)

3. Banelings in groups with zerglings/roaches, are able to get 'very powerfull', 'very fast'

4. The fact that banelings can crush armys very fast, make them a huge factor for holding the middle.
- winning banelings = no inc for the enemy/maby holding the middle
- failing banelings = easy middle for the enemys

@ itsBence/Edmon: There is some truth in both of your ways of thinking


Last edited by Sylon on Tue Jun 07, 2011 5:53 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Baneling (with lings based on comp)   Tue Jun 07, 2011 5:47 am

Both techniques are worked for me a few times. So dont tell me that they're not working!

Maybe Ill post a replay about it.
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PostSubject: Re: Baneling (with lings based on comp)   Tue Jun 07, 2011 5:28 am

Sylon wrote:
I dont want anyone im my forum to get anoying.
Pleas Calm down !

There are diffrent kind of views how the game should progress.
I ll try to find an acceptable solution.

My apologies, I just get really frustrated when people suggest things they obviously have not tried themselves.

Raven could be a solution if they didn't stack all the turrets in one place, but thats hard to resolve.

The stim thing doesn't work because of the lings in the mix (if lings were slightly slower than banes, it might help).

I am available for test games if you want me to prove anything I say in an actual battle Smile.
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PostSubject: Re: Baneling (with lings based on comp)   Tue Jun 07, 2011 5:24 am

I dont want anyone im my forum to get anoying.
Pleas Calm down !

There are diffrent kind of views how the game should progress.
I ll try to find an acceptable solution. Wink
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Edmon
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PostSubject: Re: Baneling (with lings based on comp)   Tue Jun 07, 2011 5:04 am

itsBence wrote:
Medusa wrote:
Not realy, as a terran you have early /midway 2 easier way to stop banelings:
- stim a single marauder, so he runs in front (or a small number of marauder)
- build ravens, Banelings suicide in autoturrets


Very good thinking, Medusa! Instead of calling for nerf we should learn how to deal properly with enemy units.
Post of the week for me!

Neither work, instead of theory crafting why don't you actually try it?

This is the worst post of the week for me, because it's completely ignorant and I hate it when people say things without even trying them. It is incredably obvious for anyone whos played against the comp why, but I will explain for those watching on the side lines.

Ravens will place all their autoturrets in the exact same place as they all line up and target the first ling/bane in the ball. Since they are buildings, they take epic damage from banelings and you will waste all of 6-7 before your ravens are sat there doing nothing. ONE raven (just one) can help, but thats it. Hunter Seeker missile sometimes works, but sometimes it misses the unit it's targetting as lings/banes with speed are extremely fast (and they are therefore wasted).

Stimming a unit to run infront doesn't work because you mix in some lings, which will be slightly ahead of the banes. Lone units are quickly surrounded and the lings "protect" that unit from the banes which can't hit it as they are not ranged. Only a larger ball, with enough firepower to kill lings (which allows banes through) will actually take bane hits.

I am sorry for the tone of this post, but if you'd tried your suggestions or actually played against this at all, you would know this from experience. If you are going to talk strategy, you'd better played it out yourself first.

Edmon



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PostSubject: Re: Baneling (with lings based on comp)   Tue Jun 07, 2011 1:47 am

Medusa wrote:
Not realy, as a terran you have early /midway 2 easier way to stop banelings:
- stim a single marauder, so he runs in front (or a small number of marauder)
- build ravens, Banelings suicide in autoturrets


Very good thinking, Medusa! Instead of calling for nerf we should learn how to deal properly with enemy units.
Post of the week for me!
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PostSubject: Re: Baneling (with lings based on comp)   Mon Jun 06, 2011 10:24 pm

Not realy, as a terran you have early /midway 2 easier way to stop banelings:
- stim a single marauder, so he runs in front (or a small number of marauder)
- build ravens, Banelings suicide in autoturrets
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PostSubject: Re: Baneling (with lings based on comp)   Mon Jun 06, 2011 5:18 am

Zee wrote:
IMO their damage is fine.. on one target, but they have the same damage on an area, this makes them potent even against units they deal little damage to. Diminishing area damage is the way to go, if you ask me, makes scaling versus baneling armies possible (right now if i opt for an other Archon for example, i risk it being splashed along with the first one for the same damage, so it's as if it was not even there...)

Yeah I kind of agree, but splash is what makes them what they are. Reducing vs armoured damage will stop huge piles of them being so effective against units they "shouldn't" be good against.
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PostSubject: Re: Baneling (with lings based on comp)   Mon Jun 06, 2011 5:09 am

IMO their damage is fine.. on one target, but they have the same damage on an area, this makes them potent even against units they deal little damage to. Diminishing area damage is the way to go, if you ask me, makes scaling versus baneling armies possible (right now if i opt for an other Archon for example, i risk it being splashed along with the first one for the same damage, so it's as if it was not even there...)
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PostSubject: Baneling (with lings based on comp)   Mon Jun 06, 2011 12:40 am

Now I'm not saying it's super overpowered, but banelings can be extremely difficult to stop. Especially as terran because their units all have low health and pack together tightly (except thors of course).

I've literally won games by spamming banes (adding the odd set of lings as required) and players of all races have struggled to stop them effectively. Zerg effectively have to mirror against bane spam (or risk mass infestor play), protoss need about 6 colli to stop enough of them in time. Terran tanks just can't siege up in time before their bio support glows green like a copy of fallout.

You can't really go air either, if you do they will roll past your air and wipe your commander center out. The damage they can do uncontested is immense.

I would suggest, a slight adjustment. Apply -7 damage to armoured only. This will make muraders, immortals and ultras more effective against them.

They will still do their normal damage amounts to light and non-armoured units.

Trial this and see how it goes.

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