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 Patch 30.08.2012

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Zee
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Posts : 145
Join date : 2011-05-29

PostSubject: Re: Patch 30.08.2012   Tue Nov 13, 2012 5:29 am

I'd like to present a document here, that might help with balancing:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Am_pgAQw5BdZdDRHcWdXd2pkYWs4bFNhM3RCaWo4UUE


I calculated the "efficiency meter" of each unit via the following formula: SQRT(Total HP * Avg DPS). This forumula gives the most accurate power value of a unit in a melee range combat in my experience.
I also did some research on certain units in special circumstances, and put an average cost to them based on efficiency (it's simply efficiency meter * 3 - it came close to original costs)

Correct me if any DS1338 unit value is wrong (i think you can only view it, so PM me or write a message here on the forums).

EDIT: efficiency wise high tech and especially air units are much more costly, which is something i'm fine with.

EDIT2: added a range based value too, that should be accurate for the overall combat capability in DS. Range adjusted is based on 3 pillars: Marines are OK, Zealots are slightly underpowered and Zerglings are slightly overpowered
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Zee
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Posts : 145
Join date : 2011-05-29

PostSubject: Re: Patch 30.08.2012   Sun Sep 09, 2012 10:32 am

Nice to see a patch finally, PF bug seems to be gone (very rarely 1 unit still falls behind, but it's much more bearable).

Comments:

- Lurker: this changes nothing in the metagame. Was the AOE narrowed? Because it should not hit 3 marines side by side. (EDIT: it no longer hits 3 marines side by side... tankfully)
Suggested Lurker adjustment: use BW stats. 150 HP 1 armor 20+2 damage, 6 range (maybe an upgrade for it at T3)
- Queen: OK. It is quite a bit better too, since upgrades are restored. IMO it is still a tiny bit overpowered. (EDIT: am I crazy, it's excessively overpowered due to heal, it's the singular reason why zerg stacks so well)
- I don't understand the Archon cost (was it OP? I've never seen any mass archon tactic that even remotely worked)
- Still not enough. Immortals are OP.

Bugs/exploits that are still annoying:

- Lurker burrow abuse. Remove the burrow button.
- Leaver player's combat units are removed. This makes a wrongly timed disconnect possibly fatal, and screws up middle (other team can never get it again) if they were past it.
- Broodlings are being targeted by Seeker Missiles and Snipes, rendering these units (Raven, Ghost) nigh-useless in TvZ.
- Hallucinated units are being targeted by Yamatos and Thor Cannons, even if they are revealed to be fake.
- Non-combat units with a pseudo-attack (medivac, observer, overseer) get targeted over real threats by AA.

New Bugs I found:

- Thors use their cannons even without research. To disable it (since this makes them so much worse in fact) you need to research and disable.

After many games (and a lot more 1v1s) my verdict on current units and their OP score (OP-ness if used correctly, 5 means it's OK):

God Tier (these units must be made because they are so good, no cost-effective counters, or even if you counter they already do the damage needed, these can easily turn a game around)
- Colossus (10/10) (good luck killing these before your ground army evaporates)
- Broodlord (9/10) (infinite unit spawner that gets targeted by AtA last (and gets healed back by queens anyway)? Count me in...)
A possible solution to both: increase their attack priority. It makes AA take these out FIRST (tested).

OP Tier (slightly or heavily overpowered, should be made whenever possible, counters are late or not that effective OR just very very good at what they do)
- Marine (7.5/10) (Needs no commitment due to the very cheap upgrades. Critical mass kills everything like crazy.)
- Reaper (8/10) (Has some excessive killing power for it's early game availibility - single reason not to build too much zealots in PvT)
- Raven (6/10) (mostly OP in TvT - but very OP in TvT. Why build tanks when you have these?)
- Immortal (8/10) (just bad unit design at it's finest - though can be neutered with cost adjustments - then it becomes a boring boring hardcounter, as it is now in normal game)
- Scout (6.5/10) (would be quite OP if toss air upgrades did not cost a fortune)
- Roach (7/10)
- Infestor (7/10) (neutralizes melee, kills infantry)
- Corruptor (6.5/10) (have some Queens, and you've got the wall of invincible air units - the only reason why it's not higher on the list is because of their too fast speed)
- Lurker (7.5/10)
- Queen (8/10) (neither the attack nor the HP, it's the heal)

Normal Tier (units that are OK)
- Medivac (5/10)
- Battlecruiser (5.5/10)
- Zealot (5/10)
- Observer (4.5/10)
- Archon (4.5/10)
- Zergling (5/10)
- Overseer (5.5/10)
- Hydralisk (4.5/10)

Weak Tier (units that lack a tiny bit cost-efficiency at what they should do)
- Marauder (4.25/10) (Roaches kill it. That should be an indication.)
- Hellion (4/10)
- Siege Tank (4/10) (suicidal in TvP - remember Colossus is both air and ground target, no need to unsiege if target is air AND not ground)
- Thor (4.25/10) (easy to throw in a fodder Overseer or Scout to completely neuter it's DPS - gets pretty godly when stacked though, pretty much the T carrier in this case)
- Viking (3.5/10) (paper planes with a tendency to go ahead and TANK)
- Stalker (4.25/10)
- Sentry (4.25/10)
- High Templar (3.5/10)
- Void Ray (4/10) (doesn't counter air, easily killed from ground. The only good thing about it is that it stays together with important units, unlike scouts)
- Carrier (3.5/10) (Armor upgrades. Nuff said.)
- Mutalisk (3.5/10) (this would be lower if it wasn't useful in ZvZ and some rare occasions in ZvP)
- Baneling (4.25/10) (Only useful in ZvT, and mostly in the woefully underpowered speedzerg)

Gimp Tier (units that should never be made, or only made 1 or 2 of if you want to troll your enemy or some rare situation arises) (EDIT: some explanation why they suck)
- Vulture (2/10) (cost efficiency)
- Banshee (3/10) (cost efficiency, air unit stacking)
- Dark Templar (2.5/10) (cost efficiency, weak medium speed and melee)
- Phoenix (2/10) (Stops on ground units at 6 range. Even on Raven Turrets which it has no way of attacking. Has a chance based stun spell that usually ends up stunning a unit that costs less than the Phoenix, disabling precious AA randomly. Does no damage on anything with 1 or more armor and not light - not to mention the horribly overpriced toss air upgrades to make sure it's attack is useless 100% of the time. And if this is not eanough, it's an other paper plane that likes to tank damage)
- Overlord (-10/10) (Would you really pay to make your army march in a conga line of groups differing by speed, meanwhile leaving your best units - Broodlords - behind and away from your main fighting group? 3*75 for good creep coverage, 100+100+125 for speed upgrades, 50 for speed upgrade on OL, that's 600 total money to make your army WORSE. And people still do it.... And no, air units are slower than creepzergs, so not even a synergy with your underpowered mutalisks. On top of all this, if you actually balance creep - like wider area and more consistent speeds - it will just break the game as all zergs will start insta-stacking. REMOVE)
- Ultralisk (3/10) (Would be decent if it 1: wasn't hardcountered that easy, 2: did not run away from your main fighting group or require the god awful creep to be together with the rest of your melee - and still get hardcountered by a ball of COHESIVE units)

Update: slight revision in scores


Last edited by Zee on Tue Nov 13, 2012 5:35 am; edited 4 times in total
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Sylon
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PostSubject: Patch 30.08.2012   Thu Aug 30, 2012 11:00 am

Bugfixes
- Leaver Money removed
- Planetary Stuck Removed (i hope so?)

Balancing
- Lurker Damage (-2), Upgrades fixed (+4/+0+0)->(+2/+2/+2), Attack Icon removed
- Queen Cost (+5)
- Archon Cost (+10)
- Immortal Cost (+5)
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PostSubject: Re: Patch 30.08.2012   

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Patch 30.08.2012
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