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 Hellion (unit)

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Sylon
Editor (Data-Blancing)
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Posts : 123
Join date : 2011-05-23

PostSubject: Hellion (unit)    Sun Apr 01, 2012 7:06 am

Hellion (version 1.0)



Hit Points: 100
Armor: 0
Damage:ground:everything/light: 10/18 (+1 +1 +1 / +2 +2 +2 )
Range: 6
Type: light - mechanical
Price: 100
Requirements: Tier 2

Upgrades:
Damage vs Light: +10

Patches:
1.Splash improved-> now reaches behind the attacked unit + flame width increased from 0.3 to 0.5


Last edited by Sylon on Fri Apr 13, 2012 6:32 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Zee
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Join date : 2011-05-29

PostSubject: Re: Hellion (unit)    Thu Apr 05, 2012 4:45 am

I have not really tried these out (because T mech sucks major balls), but they seem to be slightly better vs marines. Provided they were already quite good, this might spice TvT up a bit (as currently Marine+Reaper to Ravens is absolutely dominating). Might also be a bit better vs speedzerg. Zealots were suicide mode vs T anyway, so no change there.
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Zee
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PostSubject: Re: Hellion (unit)    Mon Apr 09, 2012 2:12 am

Nope, marine reaper raven it is. Hellions are nowhere near cost effective and are infinitely less versatile than any of those.

I'm not sure it really needs further adjustments, it's mostly T mech that in general just needs a bit buffing. IMO things like the mech L2 upgrades being available at T2 would be good, and Tanks being slightly better would be good.

The first problem with T mech is the Broodlord (figures). It turns the Tanks into pretty much an advantage for the enemy. Second problem is Immortals. They are just extremely cost effective. Chargelots also act as broodling replacements, suiciding into your T line to receive a few shots that utterly kill your infantry. I've gotten to the point where I see that tanks are NEVER a good option. In TvT Ghosts and Ravens are much better infantry killer. TvZ and TvP (especially the latter) is downright suicidal with tanks. Right now Tanks are the only units that do firendly fire. Imagine having leftover Tanks from a friendly previous wave, with you next, having lots of zealots versus a wall of Immortals. Tanks will just splash damage on your zealots more than those Immortals, making them actually turn the tide for the worse in a battle that is clearly in your favor.
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zuPloed
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PostSubject: Re: Hellion (unit)    Mon Apr 09, 2012 8:39 am

mech as main component for terran
would need an major rework; few flaws:

->no t2 anti-air
->no t1 mechunit
-->therby u have to sacrifice middlecontrol
->vulture/hellion have redundant functions
-->with the tweak of vults only coming to full effect when u get pushed back (mines)
->no unit that soaks damage
-->thor's too expensive and offers fight at about the same range
->no unit with high attackspeed (attackspeed counters immortal...)

small first-draft for a possible rework:

vulture:
->t1
->cost ~75
->mines is an t2 upgrade (not their main function!)
->health 120-150, light armor
->reasonably lowered dmg (no splash)
->range 4 or 5

hellion:
-> mb even wider splash
->range= vulture+1

implement goliath (this is crucial for mech to become an option)
->cost around 150
->range=vulture+ 1 or 2
->t3 upgrade antiair range = 9
->antiair damage: at least 66% normal dmg; 33% vs armored
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Zee
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PostSubject: Re: Hellion (unit)    Tue Apr 17, 2012 11:57 pm

I'm not even saying that pure mech should be viable, but that mech should not suck that much, especially Siege Tanks. The only mech unit that actually has a purpose is the Thor, as it counters massed light (including Vikings, and at larger numbers, VR and Scout) air or tanks for infantry.

Siege Tanks are only an option in TvT, and even then I advise to skip the unit entirely, because:
- it needs T3 to be actually useful vs infantry mass, otherwise it is just a slightly better Marauder. Anyway Marauders are useless in TvT anyway, unless someone decides to rely on heavy mech, which is a stupid thing to begin with (note: if you tech to T3 to counter an infantry starter, you are a horrible player and deserve the loss you'll get).
- once T3 hits, it will usually be an air to air battle between BCs and their support. Tanks do almost nothing to help here. On low numbers, they kill infantry too slow. On high numbers, they take too much money to get, and the enemy will just get more BCs and you lose.
- they are too expensive. I've seen them used much more successfully when they used to cost 220.


Currently the only unit that deals friendly fire splash damage are the tanks. This is basically a non-issue in TvT, but a lot of units can abuse this. Zealots, Broodlords, Zerglings for example.

As for vultures and hellions, they seem to be semi-useful as situational units. They can be used to screw with early game speedzergs, and are somewhat useful vs infantry as well. IMO it'll take some experimenting if they are actually worth building or not.
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