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Sylon
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PostSubject: Defensive Systems   Sun Jan 22, 2012 9:22 am

How could we improve the defensive systems for futher balance?

For Exapmle:
- make cannons stronger over time
- ad a small weaker cannon for a 50 mineral buged
- increasing middle income over time

I am open for all suggestions

hf Sylon

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Phoscur
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PostSubject: Re: Defensive Systems   Sat Jan 28, 2012 12:19 pm

Sylon wrote:
- increasing middle income over time
Bad idea. I would propose the opposite. This would just shorten the games and strenghten the already winning team.

Sylon wrote:
- make cannons stronger over time
Thanks for taking my idea into account Very Happy
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zuPloed
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PostSubject: Re: Defensive Systems   Sun Jan 29, 2012 1:38 am

could some admin combine this and the "scale the cannon" thread?
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Fumbel
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PostSubject: Re: Defensive Systems   Tue Jan 31, 2012 3:18 am

Sylon wrote:
How could we improve the defensive systems for futher balance?

For Exapmle:
- make cannons stronger over time
- ad a small weaker cannon for a 50 mineral buged
- increasing middle income over time

I am open for all suggestions

hf Sylon


make it stronger over time, or allow team's to build extra defence around the last base.

Ect buy bunkers, where u can buy units into it.

Imo its true that 20-25 mins into the game, the cannon is way to weak.
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Fumbel
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PostSubject: Re: Defensive Systems   Tue Jan 31, 2012 3:23 am

Sylon wrote:
How could we improve the defensive systems for futher balance?

For Exapmle:
- make cannons stronger over time
- ad a small weaker cannon for a 50 mineral buged
- increasing middle income over time

I am open for all suggestions

hf Sylon


Perhaps add 1 x nuke to each worker ?

I mean that will make the fights more intense.

Because when u got to many units up, it is impossible to regain the middle. Cuz they are simply to strong and the cannon aint strong enough.

Giving the teams nukes, make them able to "reset" the fight. so u can counter the 1 infront of u. so if 1 guy only did mass zerglings he would be fucked cuz the guy sending units at the same time as him, built to counter him.
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zuPloed
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PostSubject: OBJECTION!!! (i love phrases)   Tue Jan 31, 2012 8:04 am

at minute 20-25 u have about the army composition u want,
it will show whos army composition is stronger,
therefor at minute 20-25, it should be pretty clear whos the stronger team,
if the cannon is not down by now, it shouldnt slow down the winners win.

in the beginning stages the cannon pretty much works like a nuke:
if enemy has an overwhelming mass, it kills lots of them,
and u can retake middle again,
if i had cannon + 3 nukes,
id allways go 3 geysir asap, as cannon couldnt fall...
this takes away from the strategical possibilities u have
(allthough many people dont even realize how many viable ones there are...)
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ete
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PostSubject: Re: Defensive Systems   Wed Feb 08, 2012 10:15 am

Sylon wrote:
- make cannons stronger over time
"if the cannon is not down by now, it shouldnt slow down the winners win."
sums up my thoughts pretty well.

Quote :
- ad a small weaker cannon for a 50 mineral buged
Could be good. I like the idea of more objectives.

Quote :
- increasing middle income over time
Maybe a slight increase, enough to force through a win with sane unit mixes, but not enough to let the winning player start to make stupid mistakes. Perhaps an extra 5% when the rocks break?

Be very careful with defenses. DS1338 works so well partly because of the lack of defense, you can actually force through a win, or at least a cannon kill when you're against a much less skilled opponent, and games can't be dragged out for hours on end like many custom games (*shudders at the memory of a 4 hour marine arena game*). My vote: Make more things you can aim to do while attacking which give you boosts, make players be smart and fast, don't let them sit back, play badly, and defend to make a lost game last longer than it should.
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Zee
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PostSubject: Re: Defensive Systems   Thu Feb 09, 2012 5:20 am

Quote :
- make cannons stronger over time

I don't mind it, as long as it does not become too powerful. The middle cannon is usually either gets taken down early, or if it is an even game, it will not last long vs lots of T2/T3 units.
Maybe PF can scale a bit as well, especially a better splash damage.

Quote :
- ad a small weaker cannon for a 50 mineral buged

I guess you meant adding a smaller cannon for 50 mineral bounty reward?
Only if the current cannon gets placed a bit farther back, but I see no problem with it, it adds even more incentive to actually play the game properly.

Quote :
- increasing middle income over time

I am strongly against this. Middle income is so powerful already, that it needs no buff. Middle income actually does increase over time, with the more gases you have (the only way gases are worth their cost is if you actually hold the middle, due to the large scaling of the income bonus with them).

What I am planning for my DS version (if I ever get done with it), is to have the cannons give instant X minerals to the LOSER team, and a +Y mineral INCOME to the one destroying it, so it benefits the losers on the short term, and the winners on the long, but adding an extra chance for the losers to recover their ground. I have not yet settled with the amount of minerals (or even gas) given - especially because the economy in my version is vastly different (you get gas from geysers, and mineral based on your units value + a set amount).

What I also did in my DS version, is to weaken the first cannon's and the PF's direct damage, but increased the splash damage of the PF.
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zuPloed
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PostSubject: Re: Defensive Systems   Thu Feb 09, 2012 1:28 pm

as the original redundant thread died ill repost 1 idea of mine (at the bottom)

another idea i had:
completely get rid of the middle line!
-maybe get 2 new ones slightly within cannon range
-(maybe also 2 further in pf range)
-or maybe jsut add a small frame between both income zones




an idea i just had:
make middle income bonus scale over time which it is hold,
(also reset those boni ofc if middle is lost again)

example (this values can very well be different too):
0 -0.5 minutes 10%
0.5-1.5 minutes 15% (so far its not much diffrent from current system)
1.5 -3 minutes 20%
every further 2 minutes +5%

what will this accomplish?
-if frequent changes of middle control occur (balanced round),
->it wont change gameplay by a lot
-if theres a 1 sided match,
->it will be over way faster

in my opinion this would suit the map:

-the effectivness of gasses is reduced by that,
and middle is way more of an economic advantage

->that would make geysirs be what they should be:
if u have a cheaper army then the enemy team, that beat theirs,
u get a bonus as u can build a gas, without loss of middle,
and have more money in the long run

->therefor game is much more of an intense battle for midcontrol
(and by that i want exclusively mention, that mass raven, bc- or carrier-rushes,
which occur quite often are just the opposite of this)

-the possibility of a comeback is largely reduced
(or lets say the definition of comeback changes)

-> i dont coonsider a comeback smth epic or heroic,
it usually bases on high tech units (especially broodlords and carriers),
which the enemy fails to counter

pls feel free to discuss this idea.

/discuss
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Zee
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PostSubject: Re: Defensive Systems   Fri Feb 10, 2012 12:16 am

Actually if we look at that way, this kind of resetable increasing income is OK.

What i'd like to see maybe is:
- Initial middle advantage should not have such a huge impact on early game
- Not having units, or severely being pushed back should be punished in early and mid game
- Comebacks should be possible if players are fighting near the middle
- Somehow lessen the effect of the lame mass long ranged tech units (Broodlord, Carrier, Raven) camping at the PF and stacking up kind of comeback
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