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Sylon
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PostSubject: Scout (unit)   Tue Dec 27, 2011 3:33 am

Scout (version 0.3)



Hit Points: 150
Shield: 100
Armor: 1
Shield Armor: 1
Damage: ground: 8, air: light/armored: 7/14 (x2) (upgrades: +1/+1/+1)
Range: ground/air: 5/7
Type: armored - mechanical
Price: 200
Requirements: Tier 2


Last edited by Sylon on Sun Apr 01, 2012 8:47 am; edited 4 times in total
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Angelus
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PostSubject: Re: Scout (unit)   Tue Dec 27, 2011 3:44 am

Do you have ideas for an upgrade?

Also, because Protoss is quite weak with early air and the AI for the phoenix is really bad, I feel that this unit should prioritise air or have it's air rockets have longer range to compensate.

Pricing should be around 150-200 I reckon, depending on it's effectiveness.
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TohoBuWaha
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PostSubject: Re: Scout (unit)   Mon Jan 09, 2012 11:19 pm

I aggree with Angelus, Protoss needs a better early air unit and also an air unit, which isnt as expensive as a void ray...What do you think about starting with a price of 180?
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zuPloed
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PostSubject: Re: Scout (unit)   Sat Jan 14, 2012 2:14 pm

it would have lots of survivability (250), strong aa dmg,
also consider attackspeed!,
effectiveness against ground with an option of tanking (range: 4)

turn it as u like but 180 is the same as corrupters and vikings,
and theyre worlds away of doing all this,
an adequat price would be 270+ i think

but here are we at voids again...

suggestion:

HP+shields: 140
and reduced attackspeed
(default is 1.25s, thats almost twice as fast as vikings/corrupters at the same dmg)
and then we are at around 190 in price
(in my opinion)
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Zee
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PostSubject: Re: Scout (unit)   Tue Jan 17, 2012 11:10 am

Price should be around 190-200, similar to Corruptor / Viking. I'd say 200 due to the lots of hit points.
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zuPloed
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PostSubject: Re: Scout (unit)   Wed Jan 18, 2012 6:53 am

ok lets compare again:

Unit:VikingCorruptorScout
Health (+shields):125 200 150+100
Armor 0(+1) 2(+1) 1(+1)
Price 190 180 200(?)
Attackdmg-air 10(+1)x2 14+6(+1+1) 7+7(+1+1)x2
Attackdmg-ground12(+1) - 8(+1)
Attackcooldown-air 2 1.9 1.25
Attackcooldown-ground 1 - 1.7
Range-air 9 6 7
Range-ground 6 - 4
note that corrupter +dmg is against massive
source liquipedia.net and opening post

srsly those stats cant stay the same
or the price is way over 300
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Zee
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PostSubject: Re: Scout (unit)   Fri Jan 20, 2012 2:37 am

Keep in mind that Void Rays cost 250, and they are better overall than the Scout, and still quite easy to beat.

Corruptors have a range increase to 7, and they spit their +20% damage debuff on their target automatically. Vikings are probably the last target due to their long range, and they have a vastly superior ground attack.

IMO it'd be better for functionality to keep the ~200 cost, so i'd prefer to have scouts weakened to something like 120+80, 0 armor, 1.5 air cooldown. Speed should be 2.75 (keep them with stalkers)
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TohoBuWaha
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PostSubject: Re: Scout (unit)   Fri Jan 20, 2012 4:56 am

Zee wrote:
Keep in mind that Void Rays cost 250, and they are better overall than the Scout, and still quite easy to beat.
300
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zuPloed
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PostSubject: Re: Scout (unit)   Fri Jan 20, 2012 6:29 am

charged voidray dmg: 8+8 every 0.6 seconds at range 6
scout dmg: 14+14 every 1.25 seconds at range 7

thats about the same dps! (damage per second for those who dont know)
without chargeup!!!

high viking range is justified by low hp.

pls do some basic math and research
before considering pricing

another point:
for example:

having 20 dps at 200 hp in 1 unit
is about 33% more effektive then having it in 2 units
explanation:

after 10 seconds 1 of the 2 units is dead
and dps of the 2 units halved

(33% at 1:2, 20% at 2:4 units, 50% at 1:3 units, 60% at 1:4 units)
based on geometrical solution; u should be smart enough to expand the thought urself.
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Angelus
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PostSubject: Re: Scout (unit)   Sat Jan 21, 2012 6:12 am

The upgrades do not apply to this unit and it seems to prioritise ground units (something that the unit was not intended to do, it's main function is to attack air units, especially since it's ground based damage is ridiculously low)
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Sylon
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PostSubject: Re: Scout (unit)   Sat Jan 21, 2012 6:46 am

If someone know what could make scout upgrade work in the editor test, but not on b-net, pls tell me :/
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Patrick
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PostSubject: Re: Scout (unit)   Sat Jan 21, 2012 7:53 am

Borrowing zuPloed's table, but making it easier on the eye (until the dps):

Viking Corruptor Void Ray Scout
Price 190 180 300 200
Health+Shield 125 200 250 250
Armor 0 2 0 0
Base Atk dmg 10x2 14 6 (8) 7x2
Base Atk spd 2 1.9 0.6 1.25
Base DPS(minus armor) 10 -1x 7.37 -0.53x 10 (13.3) -1.67x 11.2 -1.6x
Best Atk dmg 14x2 19 10 (14) 14x2
Best Atk spd 2 1.9 0.6 1.25
Best DPS(minus armor) 14 -1x 10 -0.53x 16.7 (23.3) -1.67x 22.4 -1.6x
*Scout's ground weapon is ignored, just thinking of air combat between these specific units

Viking Corruptor Void Ray Scout
Price 190 180 300 200
Health 125 200 250 250
DPS 14 -1x 7.37 -0.53x 16.7(23.3) -1.67x 22.4 -1.6x
*All except Corruptor use their best DPS against each other

It's fortunate that Scouts use their almost nonexistent ground attack first. If they didn't I'd switch to toss.


Last edited by Patrick on Sat Apr 07, 2012 3:52 am; edited 5 times in total (Reason for editing : added honest corruptor dps, honest void dps, keep disabling smilies)
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Zee
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PostSubject: Re: Scout (unit)   Tue Jan 24, 2012 12:26 am

Oops sorry how did I know VR cost wrong?

As for developers:

Upgrades in SC2 are a pain in the ass to make. You need to add to all 3 levels: +x damage, +1 level and change icon. That is 18 entries for the Scout alone.

Scout attack priority: it priorizes ground, because ground is their primary weapon. Swap the weapon order.
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Sylon
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PostSubject: Re: Scout (unit)   Sun Apr 01, 2012 7:04 am

upgrades should work now
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Zee
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PostSubject: Re: Scout (unit)   Thu Apr 05, 2012 4:32 am

Oooh yes! Toss air problem is solved (except Broodlords, those are f.ing unstoppable). I actually feel they are slightly overpowered (see my analysis thread, I suggest a +20 to the cost). Their extremely flimsy ground attack is kind of annoying, but otherwise these units rock hard.

I have a feeling though that when Broodlords become nerfed (which they should be as they are the single most broken unit in the game) zerg WILL have some trouble with Scouts (or toss air in general). Making mutalisks actually useful could be a solution. First thing should be to slow Corruptors down (so mutas go ahead of them - also making their synergy with queens a lot better)

Right now Scouts are simply outperforming Phoenixes in almost every way. Only 25 more minerals for a unit that has superior survivability, better bonus damage allocation (seriously, light air is: Muta - sucks, Banshee - sucks, Phoenix - sucks more than those two combined, Raven - ok..., but turrets hold phoenixes as long as they are not destroyed by SOMETHING ELSE), and generally better DPS (9-18 vs 11-22). Whenever I see someone pick Phoenixes over Scouts all I can do is facepalm.
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Zuiko



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PostSubject: Re: Scout (unit)   Sun Apr 08, 2012 8:00 pm

Scout upgrades are still not working, afaik. At least for weapons. Shield and armor seems to work.
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Sylon
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PostSubject: Re: Scout (unit)   Sun Apr 08, 2012 8:29 pm

icons are still bugged... but values are changing, sry... Razz
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subaru2
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PostSubject: Re: Scout (unit)   Thu Nov 08, 2012 4:08 am

i tink scout move too fast move speed like 1.8
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Zee
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PostSubject: Re: Scout (unit)   Tue Nov 13, 2012 5:08 am

Yep... At least they are not paper planes like vikings, so they are still good, but having them behind stalkers would be much better.
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